Built like a Mercedes (?)

?mottob ot pot morf skoob daer uoy oD

************************* Dave
Reply to
DTJ
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Japan.

Cite?

Like you kick the asses of those Arabs I suppose?

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Huw

Reply to
Huw

Fiat was owned by the Italian governement, likewise Renault by the French. Using either as an example of free market business is moot. I do have experience with these cars in the States. Fiat was generally not able to take the pounding of distance driving, Renault was impossible to fix due to propriatary and (French) governmental restrictions on parts, and Peugot simply weren't numerous enough to bother with.

False. Both Fiat and Renault were owned at some point by the governemnts of their respective origin.

Not at all. I am very pleased with the position in which DC has placed itself, particularly the Chrysler division. It is notable that DC and Chrysler in particular are well off financially, doing more business than previous years, and having a better balanced line of product. This is not a coincidence. Further, I am not complaining about free market economy, nor am I complaining about "foreign" vehicles cruising our highways. Indeed, I believe competition makes for a better vehicle.

However, as I stated in my original reply, the OP wasn't worried about company profit or quality, but the fact that DC vehicles were heavy, and thus less efficient than other brands. Somehow, even though I pointed it out, you missed that in the original post.

No argument here. However their reply isn't particularly about the companies, but the welfare of the nation as a whole.

The problem is obviously on your end, where you think that such jobs would render someone unable to see through your inept reply.

Reply to
Max Dodge

It is interesting that in my field (pharmaceutical process machinery) that there are some very nicely-designed Italian machines but I have heard some negative comments about the quality. Also in one case, the technology is rather peculiar for the purpose (and they don't sell many, even in Italy).

On the other hand, certain lock and automatic gates mechanisms are dominated by Italian companies, and good they are, too. I am thinking of CISA and FAAC (or whatever it's called).

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

....and, e.g., Netherlands. (OK, small, but still.) Of course we are talking per capita.

DAS

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

Fiat is owned by the Agnelli family and it is almost bigger than the Italian state. It owns many mutinational brands like CaseNewHolland [CNH] which have a big US presence.

likewise Renault by the

The French government have no more than a 16% shareholding in Renault while Renault has a substantial holding in Nissan.

Using either as an example of free market business is moot. I

Very few US cars can cut it in Europe either. Only Chrysler/Jeep really have any presence here. Others have tried and failed due to poor quality and dynamics. Chrysler is controlled by German Daimler anyhow. Oh yes and BMW X5 and Mercedes M are American built and sell in considerable numbers here but they are hardly representative of the rest of the crap produced. In any case the build quality of my MClass was appaling and worse than any European car I have had since a Ford Fiesta of 1977. Actually my particular M was assembled in Austria and was better built than most of the petrol American built ones. Apparently the new models are much improved in all respects.

Well that is a symptom of a socialist phase that Europe went through. It is a historical anachronism which has not been true for many years. Fiat has recently been in financial trouble but nothing like the problems at Ford and GM. In fact GM had a contract to buy Fiat which they had to buy themselves out of last year. It is part of the reason GM are in the pickle they are in. There is much cross polination between the brands and Fiat supply many diesel engines to GM Europe while they now build a small car to be branded as a Ford as well as a Fiat. Fiat also build cars and supply engines for Suzuki of Japan.

Most cars are built heavier due to the equipment fitted and improved safety standards. The Mercedes brand has always made heavier cars than BMW for instance but it is all relitive. Their small cars are lighter than their big cars while a variety of engines are available for each model. If lightness is your thing, they produce the Smart car which is as small and light as anyone could wish.

The welfare of the nation is tied absolutely to the profitability, success and expansion of its companies. Not of a particular company but of all the companies that employ the population that makes a nation.

Then it is an indictment of your promotion system that you may have or have not got higher up the ladder I believe. Or it may be an indictment of the effort you put into your job. Any way it does not look good.

Huw

Reply to
Huw

My point remains, and is substanciated by your statement. Your examples are poor representation of free market philosophy.

Well, once again, you've missed the point of the original post. This was one of efficiency, and the effect on oil consumption.

Not entirely true. There are many other factors, including employment rate (related to how much is imported instead of manufactured here), inflation (cost of living versus income), and management of the companies. One of the factors that makes a company more succesful and able to expand is to raise its market share. Cuting imports is one thing that would allow for that. Thus, eliminating that possibility, as you suggest, means one advantage is stripped from the manufacturer. We can debate the merits ad infinitum, but to regard it as wholly a negative action forgets the overall picture. In DC's case, such a move might be positive, as Mercedes isn't that big a market share, while Chrysler is, thus, Chrysler would profit from such a move, while Mercedes would not be substancially harmed. Result: DC makes more money.

False. It reeks of your inability to understand that such jobs may be held by people of intellegence who have to start somewhere on the ladder of success. Where better than the bottom to understand completely what makes a business tick? Of course, if you prefer the "Peter Principle", that would explain your attitude and lack of respect for those working "beneath" you.

Reply to
Max Dodge

How far back in history do you want to go? What happened some thirty years or more ago is hardly relevant to now or even the relevant past. It is certainly not relevant to what is happening to Delphi, GM and Ford today. Unless you think the US govt will buy GM and it is a good idea. The British socialist Govt just let privately owned MG/Rover go bust and that too was a nationalised industry at some point in the past. As indeed was Ford owned Land Rover and Jaguar.

I think you will find that Mercedes cars with moderate engines are much more efficient and economical today than they were ten to twenty years ago depite gaining weight. Yes they could be even more economical but that is mainly in the hands of the consumer who can downsize vehicle and engines and even use diesel for significantly increased efficiency.

People earn what they are worth on the whole. Not always of course. If a high flier with aptitude spends more than a few days cleaning then management needs improving.

Huw

Reply to
Huw

False. In fact, labor unions (which are a 1920-30 phenomenom) are a reason for the high cost of cars today. Thus, 60 and 70 years ago events took place that affect how things work today. If you are ignorant enough to think that something that happened on a large scale 30 years ago is irrelevant today, you have lost the lesson of history. In fact, this is one case where management was inefficient but the labor WAS efficient, as we now have a glut of SUV's and poor planning on management's part.

You are barely catching up. This isn't about Mercedes becoming more efficient over time. The point was that heavier cars use more fuel.

I see you think all things work perfectly. If such a person were promoted into an already functioning management, exactly what position would they take that would make the management more efficient? Perhaps the reason such a person is not promoted is that the management is already working well, and no room to promote exists. Need I remind you that efficient management takes stock of all possibilities, such as who gets sacked in order to promote the kid at the coffee machine?

Reply to
Max Dodge

Do you read books starting at the end too ?

Graham

Reply to
Pooh Bear

Are VW/Audi and BMW inferior cars in your opinion too ?

Graham

Reply to
Pooh Bear

Curious then that where cars do take a real pouding such as in India, the locally made Padmini is a Fiat dericative and in many Middle Eastern and African countries that Peugeots stand up well to the task.

Graham

Reply to
Pooh Bear

There's a difference: When I've been reading thru a book, and am on chapter 10, I flip to chapter 10 to start reading again - I don't start all the way back at the beginning (but the previous chapters are there to refer back to if needed. :) (Not that I'm for or against top posting, but your example works against you.)

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

No, and I don't read page 1, then page 1-2, then page 1-3, 1-4, etc. When reading down through a thread, it's helpful to ignore all the crap that I've already read...

Reply to
Tom Lawrence

No, but they also have far better records of reliability in the states.

Reply to
Max Dodge

Perhaps you think that is a real pounding, but reality tells me that use in the States can be very harsh to a car that isn't designed here in the States. Like it or not, each region has its own design characteristics. Stuff designed outside the states tends to be less than up to the task here in the States. I hate to say it, but americans in general tend to be heavier than other humans. Thus cars take more abuse. Part of that is because we drive longer distances, as we don't have the rail system, nor the same lifestyle as Europe or the middle east. Another factor in those distances is the fact that we don't have restrictive borders as frequently as other regions do, thus we drive farther more frequently. Add to this that our fuel has traditionally been cheaper, and you have yet another reason we drive a lot. I have yet to see a pick up truck from Japan deal with the loads we dump on our pickups. This decade may see that opinion change in the half ton market.

Reply to
Max Dodge

That's because you imbeciles fail to remove the irrelevant text. So what happens you have a bunch of morons adding a few lines to the top of a preceding long article.

Reply to
223rem

Because you've never had to read through a complex thread, and most of your posts are of the 'me too' kind?

Reply to
223rem

Hah ! You beat me to it !

The US military can't even cope with Iraq.

Graham

Reply to
Pooh Bear

You sem to have a strange view of things.

Thatcher did her bit to destroy British Industry but UK unemployment is by no means among the highest in Europe.

Graham

Reply to
Pooh Bear

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