Diesel Fuel Prices

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wrote:


Yes, exactly the opposite of what should be happening this time of year. Now why do you think that is and lets see you back it up with some facts for a change.

Which is why the price of fuel is now magically dropping at a time of year when it traditionally goes up. So far, my theory is holding up just fine.

Which they cannot do when people don't want them due to high cost of operation due to poor mileage. My theory is still holding up quite well and is being totally supported by you.

This is true but public demands are affected by costs and reducing costs effects demand. Once again, my theory is fully supported by you. Thanks Miles.

Bullshit. They need to anticipate demands in the future and make investments accordingly which they simply did not do. As for their spending, the only thing that counts is where the rubber meets the road and so far, they don't have shit.

But the key word is hopefully. Do you really think that the Japanese are only building hybrids and are doing nothing more. If so, I have some beach front property that you may be interested in. The fact is that we have a need for higher mileage vehicles TODAY, not 20 years from now and this is where GM and Ford failed miserably.
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TBone wrote:

Oil prices were unseasonably high through the winter and spring and have now dropped which is opposite of a normal year. You really need a URL for you to know that?

Except you forgot to factor in the abnormal high oil prices that have now dropped worldwide. So much for your American gas guzzler theory.

No, its not. Gas prices skyrocketed over the past year. They dropped a small amount recently and you declare it to be a conspiracy? Good grief.

Your theory is blown to bits by the simple fact that gas prices are very high right now. What were they only 1 year ago? Oh ya, big conspiracy to lower gas prices. Good grief.

So rush to market a technology that is expensive and returns little gains and is not a sustainable solution? Makes more sense to spend money looking for longer term more viable solutions.

They are not spending anywheres near the $'s the American companies are on other forms of energy. They put all their marbles into Hybrids.
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They have not dropped that much and have been hovering around $50 since Feb. Now if the price has dropped due to the lower price of crude as you suggest, why hasn't diesel dropped with it?

Oil prices will always rise and fall worldwide so an increase or decrease in consumption will effect the worldwide price. With this in mind, a reduction in the rate of consumption in the US alone WILL have an effect on the worldwide price so my gas guzzler theory as you call it is just fine.

LOL, who said anything about a conspiracy besides you????? The fact is that when the price of gas exceeded $2.00 a gallon nationally, the demand for SUV's and large vehicles dropped 30% and that is significant, especially when Ford and GM were downgraded to junk bond status because of it. Now magically, even though the price of oil is still around $50 a barrel, the price of gas is falling below that magical $2.00 a gallon and doing it during a time when prices normally rise to control consumption. In the past 3 weeks, the price of gas has fallen about 20 cents a gallon in my area where it is now $1.95 from $2.15 while diesel has remained around $2.25 and this level of price drop is not supported by the reduction in oil prices, especially when you add in the lack of refining ability verses demand that we are currently dealing with.

A year ago, GM and Ford were not in serious trouble either. There is a limit where people say enough is enough and until gas reached over $2.00 a gallon with threats of it getting over $3.00, that limit was not reached but now it has been and the shift in sales of automobiles proves it.

Not when the need is now and what is it with you that they can't do both. The trick is to make what is available today work for you while you develop the technology for tomorrow and at this, the Great Mistake failed. Lucent technology attempted the idiotic method that you seem to think is the way to go and look at the shape that they are in now because of it.

And your proof of this is...... And who is now making the mega-bucks that they can use to develop that new technology?
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TBone wrote:

You keep tossing your $50 number out. When gas prices were at their highest oil was running close to $58. Now its about $48. Gas prices normally rise because of increased demand for the summer which isn't taking place so far as well as increased oil prices worldwide which isn't the case right now.

Sure as gas goes up people drive less or buy more economic vehicles. Been that way for decades. This discussion is about whether gas companies are controlling that price. You've made a guess saying its true but thats all it is, a guess.

Japan is not doing both. They sunk everything they had into hybrid technology and little else.
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Well then Miles, if this is true then it more than proves my point that conservation IS THE ANSWER. Gas prices here have dropped close to 20 cents a gallon in some areas and if demand has not gone up...

And the last time this happened the American auto manufacturers lost major ground that they have never reclaimed. If GM goes under, this country will fall into a depression the likes of which we have never seenand that would not look good for either Bush or the conservative party. Gas companies are no different than any other company and yes, they can and do control the price of their product which is evident by their record profits and yes, if the pressure is put on them, they can creativly lower them.

LOL, sorry Miles but as we have already discussed, these current hybrids are the foundation for tomorrows possible fuel cell vehicles. Now if you really think that they have done nothing else, lets see a little of that proof that you keep asking of me or this conclusion of yours is also nothing more than a guess.
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TBone wrote:

20 cents from what point? You seem to be happy it dropped 20 cents, even though it went up 50 prior to that. You think conservation is whats lowered gas prices? Too bad they really haven't lowerd. Just down from a level well above the mean.

Hybrid technology will contribute little to other possible fuel sources. Plus it's expensive, heavy, bulky etc.

I'm supposed to prove what they HAVEN'T done? There goes your old case of reverse scrambled logic!!
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LOL, talk about that right wing fuzzy logic. Sure I'm happy that it dropped. I would be happier that it never went up and know that it probably will again and will take that into account when I buy my next vehicle.

LOL, if they went down, then they were lowered, any way that you try to spin it. The fact is that the price of oil is going down as you have said and the reason is higher than expected inventories, even though we are going into the peak driving season AND there is a higher demand for fuel for yard maintenance equipment as well. The only way this can happen is either the oil storage tanks have developed a way to make their own oil or conservation (forced or not) has reduced demand below current supply. It is either that or it is artificial price manipulation and control, something else that you said could not be done. Either way Miles, you are still wrong.

Sorry Miles, but you are wrong once again. Hybrid vehicles are the test bed for newer technologies. You keep talking about fuel cell vehicles when it is obvious that you don't have a clue as to what they are. A fuel cell develops ELECTRICITY and in order to use it, you need electric motors. Now as I'm sure you know, electric motors have a huge variation on demand for current and the easiest and most economical way to deal with that is for the fuel cell to charge high capacity batteries that then supply the required current to the motor(s). Sounds a lot like a hybrid now, doesn't it. Then you can add in the facts that a whole new set of systems and technology needs to be developed and perfected for fully electric vehicles to function to our current expectations and what better platform to develop them on!

IOW, you can't do it so your conclusion that they have done nothing is as you say to me, nothing more than a guess and an incorrect one at that.
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TBone wrote:

Here you go again thinking that a slight drop in USA gas consumption is why global oil prices are dropping. Wait a sec here, you said oil prices have stayed right around $50, now you say they are dropping? You'll argue either side of a case if it fits your warped mind.
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LOL, that is the idea of a global market Miles. If the demand drops somewhere, the price drops everywhere. BTW, I never said that the consumption drop had to occur in the US to effect the price, only that since we use so much that we can have the greatest effect.

Funny how you accuse me of exactly what you are doing. Is this your way of throwing people off, LOL? The thing is Miles, you have said that the oil companies cannot control the price AND that conservation will have NO effect on the price of fuel. Yet, the price of fuel has skyrocketed in the past (claimed demand exceeding supply) and is now falling significantly in many areas when it should be seasonally rising. This clearly indicates that either production has increased, consumption has reduced (conservation) or that the oil companies are manipulating the price. Since the refineries are already at max output (the supposed reason for the steep price increases to begin with) increased production is obviously not the reason for the price drop which leaves price manipulation and conservation as the only possible reasons and yet, you say that it can be neither when actually, it is probably a little of both. Talk about a warped mind.
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TBone wrote:

I suppose we CAN, but the USA is not the reason for oil prices climbing rapidly nor is it the reason they're falling a bit. Rapid demand for oil, primarily in China is why oil prices skyrocketed. Now, do you know why prices have now fallen a bit? Conservation? Hardly.
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You keep flapping your lips but I have yet to see any facts come out. If you know a different reason then lets hear it with some facts to back it up for a change.
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TBone wrote:

You had no idea why prices went up. I just told you the main reason. Huge demand in China. That is no secret yet you have no clue so you rant away wanting me to teach you step by step.
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LOL, sorry Miles, but your rambling is really starting to show just how little you really know. I already said that the price went up because demand was exceeding supply (additional demand from China). Now what you need to come up with is a valid reason why the price is going back down which is something that you have yet to do.

Poor attempt to spin Miles. I never claimed not to know why the price went up and have said the reason MANY times but you have yet to come up with a single reason why it went back down. You say that I want you to teach me step by step but in reality, all I want is a valid reason as to why it is going back down and that is something that you have yet to or will ever give.
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TBone wrote:

Several reasons. Oil production has risen, idle refineries have come back online, speculation of future high oil demand never materialized bringing oil futures back down. Oh, but I know, it was mainly hybrids and conservation.

Yes, I have stated the above a few times. You just keep reverting to hybrids and conservation and ignore reality of whats going on in the world though. Its a bit bigger picture that what you wish to focus on.
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LOL, you really are kinda funny Miles but at least now you have something to say. To bad you still don't back anything up. Exactly what idle refineries have come back online? Lets see a link. Now even if this were true, how would that lower the price of oil. Refineries don't run for free so even though they may increase supply, they do it at a cost. I see that you are also talking about the speculation of high demand that never materialized. Why do you think that is never did? Could conservation have something to do with it or was the hype nothing more than artificial price control????

Yes Miles, you do make many foggy and unsupported statements all of the time. The fact is that you do repeatedly use the reduction in demand as a primary reason for the reduction in the price of oil but fail to explain how this reduction in demand occurs. I believe that you just don't want to accept the fact that conservation can and does work because then God forbid, you may feel the need to possibly give up something.
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$2.60-$2.80 here in SoCal for Diesel
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