My Durango came with Goodyear Wrangler RT/S tires. Tried them only once in the snow. They quickly packed up with snow and became round ice wheels with zero traction. Had 4WD but it was about useless. Changed the tires for Michelin Cross Terrains which are very similar to their LTX MS tires. Huge difference. Drove for a couple 100 miles through snow packed roads and the tires never once packed up. They stuck.
I could see it if a pickup truck was already pretty well balanced, but it isn't. As Roy said, put the weight behind the axle "like when you have a plow up front." How about like when you have a Cummins ingot up front?
Balance really isn't the issue in this case. If you could shift the existing weight from the front to the rear then it would make sense. To add weight behind the rear tires simply increases the mass and inertia of the vehicle which is always a bad thing in ice and snow. At the same time, you are removing some of the down-force on the front axle while increasing the mass and inertia created by that mass which makes it even harder to turn the vehicle. Roy suggested putting weight behind the rear axle in a plow situation to help unload the front suspension of some of the added mass of the plow hanging off of the front. Since the plow is in front of the front tires it also has that "lever" effect and takes some of the weight off of the rear axle. Putting weight behind the rear axle in that case counterbalances the plow and returns the weight back to the rear axle where it is needed. As for the Cummins, while it is heavy it is sitting over the front axle so there is no counter lever effect on the rear axle and most of it's weight is being put to use holding the front tires down.
I would think that with the 900 pound's of engine up front, you have lightened the rear so a few hundred pounds in back might give a more favorable weight distribution in snow for traction purpose's. That's without the plow. A scale would help answer the weight issue.
That depends on how the load is situated. If the engine is sitting in front of the front axle, then yes, it is lightening the load on the rear axle. If it is directly over the front axle, then it has no effect on the rear axle and if it is slightly behind the front axle, then it is actually adding weight to the rear axle. Since I don't own one, I don't know exactly where the engine sits in relation to the front axle. I agree that some weight may need to be added to the rear to increase traction in snowy conditions but as others have said, the weight should be directly over the rear axle in this situation.
Weight behind the rear axle has that effect.
Weight directly over the rear axle also does that.
The vehicle wants to turn around its center-of-mass, wherever that is. You can't have the downforce that you want at either end without more inertia which you don't want... unless it's mid-engined and low-mass at both ends.
But that pig iron is also adding inertia in a turn. :) There's really no one right solution. Only after your mishap do you know where the ballast should have been that day.
Outer edge staggered.
Try to think of a good footprint of a proper inflated tire, with stud's protruding. On bare pavement what is making contact with that pavement?
Don't take my word for it. Look it up, the info is out there. Or take the Idiots advice and buy yourself some studed tires. But do get back to use with what ya do put on your truck.
Studded tires are great if you live in an area thats mostly frozen all winter. Not that many places in the USA. North Dakota and parts of Alaska come to mind.
They are a thrill a minute in rain soaked pavement. Now that I think about it, I wonder how, if used as the Idiot suggested, they would work with a abs truck.
I dont know why they have studded tires in places that aren't frozen solid almost all winter. In Flagstaff, AZ. many tire shops will put studs in. Sure Flagstaff can get deep snow and packed roads and highways. But it melts after 1 or 2 days between storms. Only people I can see that may want them would be those that live deep in the forests down dirt roads. Those roads stay frozen.
I would say that depending on the tire, it should be studs on the outer edge and rubber in the middle. If the entire tread is being held up be the studs, then that tire is a POS and is no better than a fully studded version so what would be the point of making it that way?
I have never needed snow tires with my truck but then again, I don't plow with it either and I don't see a real need for worrying about it here in NC.
Now you are getting the picture. That's why they aren't used much. I've not seen anybody with a set of studed tires on anything in years.
The stud is located on the tread so that it makes contact with the snow or ice covered road. To attain traction the stud is forced into the ice by the weight of whatever it is mounted on. When there is dry pavement the stud is making contact with the road. So your traction and stopping ability is deminished big time.
The Blizak with the super sticky rubber gives you both super traction in ice and snow and dry or wet pavement as well. But use in hot temps will use them up real quick. Also they should be used on all four wheels.
Here ya go!!
LOL, much better!
How many
Tom these friggin studded tires are one thing, dangerous. The one's I had were side and staggered they sucked they were dangerous. You talk about traction but ya have to get the damn thing stopped as well.
Rather than go back and forth over what the Idiot said or didn't say, go read up on them. Or go buy a set for yourself and hold on tight.
How did you arrive at this?
Then you ought to come on out to Oregon. The Californian transplants seem to love them since we actually get snow a couple of times a year. They still can't drive in the stuff, but they gotta have studded tires, since they are now in the "wilderness"! I personally think they should outlaw studded tires since they cause millions of damage each year to the road surface, and have no pratical value here.
how long have you lived out "here in oregon"? studs seem to be pretty valuable in the ice, which is a more common thing out here than snow is. and even with snow, we end up with a crust of ice on top, and snow tires on ice are pretty worthless. studs are nice. alot of times it is either studs or chains or "no go". we chose studs. chains are a major pia. the nice thing with studded tires is when the weather changes, which it does everey couple of days in oregon, you can just take the studded tires off and put the highway tires on and go.
Here in MA they are allowed only during winter months (as I imagine most states dictate as well).
I don't think they can go on until Nov 30 and have to be off by Apr 1 or 15. There's a definite "snow tire season" defined by law.
I had them on my truck (rear wheels only) and they did help on ice, but I don't think they provide much help beyond ice driving, which, I suppose is their primary purpose.
SMH
I used to see them every now and then in NJ and I guess that people here own them because ice is much more of a problem than snow in NC.
While I agree that traction is diminished, I'm not so sure about "big time", specifically when you are talking about studded tires that only have them on the outer edge of the tread. Of course, just like in regular tires, there are good ones and there are pure crap ones as well. I did a little reading and there were a few studded tires that actually matched conventional tires in stopping ability on dry roads but they are not available in this country. As I said before, the significance of the traction loss is dependant on the driver. With the vehicles that you have owned, you seem to be performance oriented and in your case, the loss of traction from the studs would be unacceptable while someone who drives a little easier than you do might not even notice the difference besides the noise from the studs.
Especially with the way that you drive :-) I have heard good things about Blizzak's and agree that they seem to be the better tire but even there, driving style will play a part. How do blizzaks do on wet ice? I bet that studded tire will out do them there because studded tires will not be as effected by the thin layer of water and if the driver is one of those just floor it and let them spin types, studded will again have a possible advantage as the studs will keep digging without hydroplaning. The blizzaks may do as well but you will probably be significantly shortening there lives but again, this is just my opinion and I could very well be wrong as I have never owned them and probably never will.
As I suspected, nothing but spin. What difference does it make other than to try and spin the point of the discussion to something else. When you have something valid to discuss, I will be glad to take part in it. I think that you are a bright guy for the most part and a real debate might be fun but this is just wasting my time so I'm done with this thread. Feel free to replay if you must.
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