Ford is nervous

Autoblog comments

formatting link
Ford sold 55,000 F Series last month. GM sold 44,000 and 12,000 and Dodge sold 36,000. Why does Ford feel sooooo threatened by Toyota to routinely attack it? Tundra sales were 15,000 for April. Doesn't Ford know that the more it puts out commercials attacking a distant 4th place, the more credibility it gives the Tundra? I mean if the 2007 F150 is superior to the Tundra, then let the people decide. The only reason a number one attacks a number 4 is if they feel inferior. Also, Tundra can only wants to sell 200,000 this year.

Ford, as the king of trucks, look at yourself and improve, not dis others. Unless you are afraid. ========== Never underestimate the competition, specially if it comes from the East. Ford did it when they had the sales king, aka Taurus

formatting link
and look what happened...========== All Ford does is talk about others. Pathetic. They just whine. Invest in the 4.6 and 5.4 first rather than on commercials. I am a Chevy guy and I hope Silverado puts the F-series to pasture. ========== Dodge Ram for the young stud Chevy Silverado for the middleaged man GMC Sierra for the middleaged professional Ford F-Series = old man's truck Toyota Tundra for the educated and demanding person ========== Rising Sun:
formatting link

Reply to
George Orwell
Loading thread data ...

"George Orwell" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@mixmaster.it...

So then Toyota should stop their advertising?

Reply to
GeekBoy

I can't imagine two things:

  1. a person watching commercials
  2. a person basing a vehicle decision on safety ratings. what a bogus reason to buy a particular vehicle.

So, I agree, ford is wasting their time and money aiming the commercials at safety ratings. After all, broadside either the f-150 OR the tyota with a semi and they're both going to be junk and the driver dead.

Reply to
Steve Barker

The ads are pathetic and I can't stand Ford or their products. Fords better ideas all suck just like their trucks... period. Triton engines are boat anchors, the v10 couldn't blow itself to hell if was cast in dynomite, and the 6.0 Navistar engine they've been putting in their trucks is a fuel injector eating pile of camel dungh.

I hope Toyota kicks their sorry asses even if the Tundra is the ugliest truck on the market next to a Chevy.

Ford's running out of BETTER ideas. look at their latest and greatest.. the tailgate step with ultra cheezy grab handle for little people who can't step high enough to get into the bed.

Mine makes me look younger

all come with free pair of blue pumps

all come with a free pair of red pumps

for the man who's underwear have a knots in the crotch

educated? Tundra brake rotor $700.00. Sierra brake rotor $100.00 demand will come when it's parts replacement time and the parts are still floatings around the pacific on a barge.

Reply to
Roger Rabbid

Screw that nonsense, who cares about the competition when you've just been served a $2,000,000,000 lawsuit by the supplier of the engines that make your F250/F350 products the top sellers that they are.

hmmm.... 2 billion lawsuit n one hand, Toyota competion on the other........

Anyone got a beer for these flames?

Reply to
Max Dodge

They got no chance in hell of winning that law suit as the engines they sent Ford were a bunch of worthless paper weights that only hurt Fords reputation. Sorry to burst your bubble Max, but it was not that POS diesel engine that made Ford the top seller that it is like Cummins did to keep Dodge in the game at all. As for Toyota, I think that once again Dodge has far more to fear than Ford with the changes that they have made.

Reply to
TBone

You sure spend a lot of time worrying about what Ford does in relation to Toyota.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

Trolls do that, and they cross post to as many groups as they think they can get away with just to stir up shit.

Reply to
Noon-Air

Kinda like what you just did? The OP is a known pia, why people respond to his post's.....

Reply to
Roy

With no idea what group you are posting from, I just took a shot in the dark. Personally, I think I will remain in alt.auto.toyota.trucks

Have a nice day

Reply to
Noon-Air

Sadly, you are misguided on this. Navistar is suing because of breach of contract, not because of anything else. When Ford bought the engines, they agreed to pay for them. Ford did not follow through on this properly. Second, the engines being junk is in question, as Navistar feels that Ford was at fault in the ECM problems. As such, we the public will have to wait and see what happens. Third, part of Navistars contention is that Ford knowingly broke the contract by designing a replacement diesel far ahead of schedule. This has been reported in several newspapers, along with info stating that Ford is planning to drop the Navistar engine at least two years ealier than the contract calls for.

Second, the Diesel option in the F250/350 was in fact what made it a top contender. You may be mistaking the #1 status of the F150 as part of the heavy truck sales; it is not. Ford staked its sales on the PSD reputation, as built on the T444E. Sadly, the next generation failed to live up to the name. It was mentioned in several wire reports that Ford sales would be drastically affected because the majority of the F250/350 trucks were leaving the factory with the PSD.

Thus, unless the lawsuits (there are more than one pending on this issue between those companies) fall totally Ford's direction, Ford will take a tremendous hit financially.

As to Toyota, whenever a new product enters the market, typically the best seller takes the hit. In this case, the Toyota offering wouldn't make a dent in the heavy pickup market, since Toyota doesn't offer one. Secondly, the dent to the sales of the "big three" would not be in the billions of dollars, as the Navistar lawsuit might be.

As such, when comparing the impact of the Tundra to Ford's finacial future, versus that of a $2billion lawsuit, I think the lawsuit has more potential impact, without question. Thus, I again say, Ford's worries aren't with Toyota, but with Navistar.

Reply to
Max Dodge

The whole situation is a big mess and interconnected. Ford claims that the reason they were witholding payments was because Navistar was in breach of

*their* contractual obligation to absorb some of the warranty repair costs associated with the 6.0L engine.

RCE

Reply to
Eisboch

I can't believe GM sold 44,000 F series trucks! This sounds quite bogus. GM does not sell F series. Nor does Dodge or Toyota. Ford is not nervous about another mfgr selling more Ford trucks than Ford does. What is this thread doing here anyhow?

Reply to
Mike Copeland

Precisely. Thus, the claim that Navistar has nothing and the suit will fall apart is a bit short sighted. If it were that easy to come to a decision, certainly Navistar and its lawyers would not have filed papers to begin with. What signifies this action as solidly based and a huge threat to Ford is the dollar amount. A supplier such as Navistar doesn't "bite the hand that feeds it" simply because it seems like the "thing to do". Navistar's reputation and financial status may well be on the line here, and they undoubtedly feel its worth taking action.

The real point is, Ford is on shakey ground to begin with, now a $2b lawsuit will at very least sap their cash reserves, let alone the effects of an adverse judgement.

Next point is, Toyota isn't the threat to domestic truck sales that was foreseen, mostly because of the recent jump in fuel costs. However, Toyota has a habit of aiming at the top. Currently, the top 1/2 ton pickup is the F150. So far, Toyota hasn't put a serious dent in those sales.

Reply to
Max Dodge

Making people like you ask facetious questions?

Reply to
Max Dodge

I think the $2B "lawsuit" is nothing more than to catch Ford's attention and attempt to force Ford to honor existing engine contracts. From what I've read, it is based on Navistar's opinion that Ford is moving forward with plans to design and build their own diesel engine rather than continue to purchase them from Navistar. Apparently there is a contract clause that prohibits Ford from doing so until after 2012. It will get tanglefooted because I am sure that Ford, being solely dependent on Navistar, insisted on having certain performance related obligations imposed on Navistar as well.

Eisboch

Reply to
Eisboch

Certainly its an attention-getter. But in the corporate world, "frivolous lawsuits" aren't the method of operation. Clearly (again) Navistar feels its got good ground to stand on for the dollar figure.

Reply to
Max Dodge

I am well aware of what they are suing for. The question is, who actually breached the contract.

And when Navistar signed the contract, they agreed to provide reliable engines to Ford and they also appear not to have done so.

Unless Navistar can somehow prove this and I doubt that they can, Ford still has a good case. AFAIK, Ford didn't stop paying untill Navistar stopped fixing them.

I doubt very much that Ford was restricted on when it could begin design of a new engine, only on implementation on specific vehicles. As for replacement, Ford could simply claim that they were looking to replace them ahead of schedule due to the excessive failure rates of the Navistar engines and the damage it was causing to sales and their reputation.

And with the excessive failure rate, could you blame them? Navistar would have to prove that their engines were everything that they promised and as said before, I doubt that they can.

While a diesel option helped to make them a top contender, it was not the Navistar name, just the engine type along with the strength and durability of the vehicles for the price. If it was just the engine, then Dodge should be No 1 by a wide margine as the Cummins is simply better than the rest so far and again, by a wide margine.

I never said that it was and we are talking about two totally different things now. The F150 is a completely different truck from the SuperDuty series.

I agree that Ford has staked some of its sales on the PSD but it takes more than just an engine to get the sales or as I said before, Dodge would be #1 in the medium duty P/U's.

LOL, understatement of the year.

Sure it would and that is the reason that Ford is looking to remove them 2 years ahead of schedule but again, while the engine can stop sales if it is a POS or thought of as one, it takes more than just a good engine to get them.

I doubt it. They will just appeal it as will Navistar and this will go on for years.

Actually, the biggest tends to take the largest hit but not always, especially with vehicles and brand loyalty.

Not yet but as we have seen, Toyota looks toward the future unlike the American ones. If there is money to be made there, that is where they will go.

Don't bet on that. Even if Navistar happens to win, it is a one shot deal and then it's over, not to mention the appeals that could drag it out for years. Every truck that Toyota happens to sell is a loss for one of the "big three" and since most of their profits come from their truck and SUV sales, it is more significant than you might imagine. Then in order to reclaim those sales they have to do research to see why they lost them to Toyota, possibly make design changes to re-attract those customers and at a minimum wage an advertising war to show how they are better than Toyota. When you add all this up, the cost are huge and well exceed just the cost of the sale and this happens every year. Of course, Toyota will see this and do the same thing so on it goes. BTW, you might want to use a different term than the "big three" since IIRC, Toyota is now #2 and soon to be #1 if not there already.

Then you would be mistaken.

Reply to
TBone

TiVO rules!

Reply to
B A R R Y

Not really.

Sure they would have. If they didn't, they would basically be admitting that they were supplying Ford with a defective engine and that would damage their reputation even worse then it already is. You can't put a price on that.

Now you are assuming that even if they win that they would get the full dollar amount. Ford will not worry about this until they lose and all of their appeals are done.

Hahahahaha, now that was funny. This kind of thing happens all of the time. Perhaps you should read some of the financial papers every now and then.

Thank you for supporting my prior point. Navistar is suing for their reputation, especially since they already lost one when they stopped supplying engines and were forced to resume.

How will an adverse judgment hurt Ford besides the money?

And that is the key word, "so far".

Reply to
TBone

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.