Ford is nervous

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On Mon, 07 May 2007 21:32:20 +0000, JR rebooted the Etch-A-Sketch and scribbled:
<snip>


...then don't read posts with the term, "ford is nervous."
Oh, and please stop top posting. Though you may be using an inferior newsreader on an inferior operating system, you can at least attempt to be polite and bottom post.
One more thing - two dashes with a space afterwards will work better than a commma for allowing newsreaders - even in Wintendo - to strip your signature properly.
HTH!
HAND
--
k

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I don't read the posts with the term "Ford is nervous". However I do have to mark them as read or delete them to make them disappear.
As a self appointed sophisticate of Usenet, you should well know that top or bottom posting is up to the individual. There is no convention, only preference. Regards coma JR

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JR wrote: > I don't read the posts with the term "Ford is nervous". > However I do have to mark them as read or delete them to make them > disappear.
Each post needs it? I can mark a thread "Ignore Thread" and it's done.
> As a self appointed sophisticate of Usenet, you should well know that top or > bottom posting is up to the individual. > There is no convention, only preference.
See "2.3 Why should I place my response below the quoted text?" http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
--
Make friends with a few animals. Then you will become a cheerful man
once more and nothing will be able to trouble you. -- Albert Einstein
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Sorry about that. As one who also is occasionally annoyed by crossposting, I should know better. I simply didn't read the headers.
Eisboch
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Thank you Eisboch.

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Sir,
Please refrain from opening posts and threads you care not a wit about, it makes your life easier.
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Max

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Not really.

Sure they would have. If they didn't, they would basically be admitting that they were supplying Ford with a defective engine and that would damage their reputation even worse then it already is. You can't put a price on that.

Now you are assuming that even if they win that they would get the full dollar amount. Ford will not worry about this until they lose and all of their appeals are done.

Hahahahaha, now that was funny. This kind of thing happens all of the time. Perhaps you should read some of the financial papers every now and then.

Thank you for supporting my prior point. Navistar is suing for their reputation, especially since they already lost one when they stopped supplying engines and were forced to resume.

How will an adverse judgment hurt Ford besides the money?

And that is the key word, "so far".
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As I understand the situation, the vast majority of the 6.0L problems have nothing to do with Navistar's basic engine. It's the Ford specified modifications, including the variable vane turbo that is crashing.
The Navistar version of the engine has been around for a while and is a "non-event" engine, meaning no significant problems.
Eisboch
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wrote:

The bigger problem is injector troubles, they leak and dilute the crankcase oil. There has been a lot of blown engines over this. I heard of one blown form this when it was 3 weeks old. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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"Eisboch" < snipped-for-privacy@nowhere.com> wrote in message
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wrote:

I do know that Ford raise the standard for the acceptable level of fuel in oil from the industry standard of about 2% to about 9% on the 6.0 because of leaky injectors. I do not know if this was Fords or Internationals idea ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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wrote:

Ford may have made some adjustments to the software or hardware that controls the vgt. jacking around with only effects the performance of the engine. The variable geometry part of the turbo isn't all THAT complicated since all they are doing is varing the amount of boost it can supply to the intake so it doesn't overcome the flow of exhaust from the egr side. it's no more complicated than opening or closing the vents on your dashboard to restrict the flow of air out of them.
I've seen these engines come into my shop for a routine service, and leave the shop misfiring. bad injectors have been a chronic problem with the engine.

the engine started showing up in Fords almost as fast as they cooled off the first block casting for the first engines.

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On Mon, 07 May 2007 05:14:32 +0000, Max Dodge rebooted the Etch-A-Sketch and scribbled:

You know, I wouldn't be suprised if Toyota hasn't been talking to Navistar hoping to get them to place either the 6.4 or a newer engine in the Tundra if they break off with Ford.
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That would make sense for a number of reasons. Only argument against that would be the fact that Isuzu is the worlds leader in automotive diesels.
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On Tue, 08 May 2007 02:26:53 +0000, Max Dodge rebooted the Etch-A-Sketch and scribbled:

Well, don't they use Duramax diesel? If toyota were to work with them, It would be like some other automakers utilizing Toyota's hybrid system....
..oh, wait...
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I am well aware of what they are suing for. The question is, who actually breached the contract.

And when Navistar signed the contract, they agreed to provide reliable engines to Ford and they also appear not to have done so.

Unless Navistar can somehow prove this and I doubt that they can, Ford still has a good case. AFAIK, Ford didn't stop paying untill Navistar stopped fixing them.

I doubt very much that Ford was restricted on when it could begin design of a new engine, only on implementation on specific vehicles. As for replacement, Ford could simply claim that they were looking to replace them ahead of schedule due to the excessive failure rates of the Navistar engines and the damage it was causing to sales and their reputation.

And with the excessive failure rate, could you blame them? Navistar would have to prove that their engines were everything that they promised and as said before, I doubt that they can.

While a diesel option helped to make them a top contender, it was not the Navistar name, just the engine type along with the strength and durability of the vehicles for the price. If it was just the engine, then Dodge should be No 1 by a wide margine as the Cummins is simply better than the rest so far and again, by a wide margine.

I never said that it was and we are talking about two totally different things now. The F150 is a completely different truck from the SuperDuty series.

I agree that Ford has staked some of its sales on the PSD but it takes more than just an engine to get the sales or as I said before, Dodge would be #1 in the medium duty P/U's.

LOL, understatement of the year.

Sure it would and that is the reason that Ford is looking to remove them 2 years ahead of schedule but again, while the engine can stop sales if it is a POS or thought of as one, it takes more than just a good engine to get them.

I doubt it. They will just appeal it as will Navistar and this will go on for years.

Actually, the biggest tends to take the largest hit but not always, especially with vehicles and brand loyalty.

Not yet but as we have seen, Toyota looks toward the future unlike the American ones. If there is money to be made there, that is where they will go.

Don't bet on that. Even if Navistar happens to win, it is a one shot deal and then it's over, not to mention the appeals that could drag it out for years. Every truck that Toyota happens to sell is a loss for one of the "big three" and since most of their profits come from their truck and SUV sales, it is more significant than you might imagine. Then in order to reclaim those sales they have to do research to see why they lost them to Toyota, possibly make design changes to re-attract those customers and at a minimum wage an advertising war to show how they are better than Toyota. When you add all this up, the cost are huge and well exceed just the cost of the sale and this happens every year. Of course, Toyota will see this and do the same thing so on it goes. BTW, you might want to use a different term than the "big three" since IIRC, Toyota is now #2 and soon to be #1 if not there already.

Then you would be mistaken.
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If there is a question, as you state, then its not as cut and dried as you previously claimed.

Exactly, so its not like you claimed at all in your previous post.

Navistar certainly should be able to prove it, given that they likely had a Ford on site to figure out the warranty problems.

Navistar seems to feel that Ford was restricted in its timetable. I'm certain Ford will claim exactly what you say. However, if the contract contains a clause prohibiting engine development, then its open to interpretation.

Not at all. Ford certainly will do what it feels it has to in order to protect itself. Problem is, what will the contract dictate? As to Navistar, they must have something, or the dollar figure wouldn't be that high.

Navistar's name is all over the thing, so Navistar has a vested interest in keeping their name clear. The name is long recognized as big in the heavy equipment sector. As such, Ford's rep isn't the only thing that made the F250/350 a popular product.

Much as you and I know it, many people prefer a V8, or simply don't know enough, to know which engine is better.

Right..... hence the lawsuit by Navistar, since they depend on their name and rep to promote engines, not just trucks.

Exactly.... all the while taking a hit on the legal fees until its settled.

Last I heard, Toyota wasn't yet covering their investment on the new plant in Texas.

What you aren't seeing is that a company can scale back on expenditure to accomodate a market shift. In a direct loss, such as the lawsuit would bring, its a drain without any means to compensate for the loss.

See above. Market shift and legal loss are totally different in the type of loss incurred.
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You sure spend a lot of time worrying about what Ford does in relation to Toyota.
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Trolls do that, and they cross post to as many groups as they think they can get away with just to stir up shit.
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his post's.....
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