Gulf Coast part 2

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Let's try to keep the politics out of this question. Let's make it yes or no!!
Do you feel the response was late??? YES OR NO!!

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At the risk of being labeled a "leftie" ... HELL YES!
Craig C.
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arrive. But in all fairness, did they have to let the water go down before they could get much in??? Also, if what I read was correct, with idiots taking pot shots at the 'copters that were trying to take people out, I'd say fuck-em and let them swim.
Denny
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The water hasn't dropped that much. Helicoptors and the trucks that showed today.

in the air and light them the fuck up. But if you don't have the assets then you get what happened. Nothing.
Roy

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And if the birds were armed and returned fire, could you imagine the crying and whining that would happen?? It's a no-win situation. I'd have to let them soak a little while longer till they calmed down. In every situation it's always a few idiots that ruin it for the many.
Denny
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Yes, hell yes.
BDK
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is as fast as could be expected.
beekeep
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Agreed. What about planes, helicopters and boats?
Craig C.
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Planes? Not very useful... where ya gonna drop stuff? In the water? Boats? Can't navigate through the city with anything bigger than a rowboat, due to all the debris in the streets. Helicopters? They were there since Tuesday... the CG was plucking people off of rooftops pretty-much non-stop. If you mean choppers like the Blackhawks, Chinooks, Super Stallions, etc.... those came with the military, which has already been discussed as to why they weren't there earlier.
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The entire city is not under water. Western amd Northwestern NO are "dry". So, yes, planes could drop supplies there. Large boats cannot navigate through the city, but they can supply the coastline to the west of NO and take in supplies on smaller boats. Not perfect, but better than NOTHING, which is what they got.
And ... are you telling me that a handful of helicopters is the best we can do? I read that less than 50 helicopters were involved.
I tried to find some research I did in college on earthquakes, to no avail. However, in Cali, I can't think of a single major earthquake that went more than 2 days without an outpooring of aid from various state and federal agencies. You might make the argument that the areas were not under water, but the challenges were just as great. Roads and bridges out, structures collapsing, no electricity ...
Craig C.
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On buildings? You do realize that planes cannot accurately drop supplies, right? There are no "smart palates".

What way is there to get from the "coastline" facilities, if any, to the city? Logistics of transport from any drop zone is part of the problem that takes time.

How many do you want? 50 Helos means 150 men on crew, and up to 500 ground crew. Thats 650 crew, without talking about landing zones, fuel, co-ordination for flight operations, etc. The USCG only has 211 Helos total, with 3-5 (guesstimate from facts culled from the USCG 8th division websites) from each of four air stations in the 8th Division's territory. Wow, a full 10% of the USCG helos were on duty and flying, if possible. Wanna bet others came in from outside the 8th Division's area? If ALL those 50 were USCG, thats 25% of a NATIONAL force. THAT is a one hell of a mobilization.

Well, considering the USCG was flying within a day of the storm passing, this disaster response falls within your criteria. Given that anyone who has actually been in the area claims its worse than anything they've seen, adding an extra day to your two quoted above isn't out of reason.
--
Max

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Ya mean ya can't strap a Garmin hand-held GPS onto one, and turn it into a JDAP (Joint Direct Assistance Pallet)? :)

That would be through the swamps...
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And they have plenty of swamp boats built just for that purpose.
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Who's "they"? You know this for a fact? You know they weren't isolated, or even destroyed, by the storm?
Ya know, Tom... you seem to have all this figured out. Why the hell aren't you down there telling everyone what they should be doing? Bourbon Street could have been rocking again tonight if you were in charge...
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Denny
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And YOU know that every one of them were???

Is this the best that you can do Tom? Do you think that the best job possible has been done so far? You make the claim that there are swamps in the way but they have always been there and are a way of life for the people that live near them and they have equipment to deal with it. I never said that I knew everything or had all of the answers but compared to the way the situation is currently being handled, I probably could do a better job, at least in the beginning.
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"" wrote: > > The entire city is not under water. Western amd > Northwestern NO are > > "dry". So, yes, planes could drop supplies there. > > On buildings? You do realize that planes cannot accurately > drop supplies, > right? There are no "smart palates". > > > Large boats cannot > > navigate through the city, but they can supply the coastline > to the > > west of NO and take in supplies on smaller boats. Not > perfect, but > > better than NOTHING, which is what they got. > > What way is there to get from the "coastline" facilities, if > any, to the > city? Logistics of transport from any drop zone is part of the > problem that > takes time. > > > And ... are you telling me that a handful of helicopters is > the best we > > can do? I read that less than 50 helicopters were involved. > > How many do you want? 50 Helos means 150 men on crew, and up > to 500 ground > crew. Thats 650 crew, without talking about landing zones, > fuel, > co-ordination for flight operations, etc. The USCG only has > 211 Helos total, > with 3-5 (guesstimate from facts culled from the USCG 8th > division websites) > from each of four air stations in the 8th Division's > territory. Wow, a full > 10% of the USCG helos were on duty and flying, if possible. > Wanna bet others > came in from outside the 8th Division's area? If ALL those 50 > were USCG, > thats 25% of a NATIONAL force. THAT is a one hell of a > mobilization. > > > I tried to find some research I did in college on > earthquakes, to no > > avail. However, in Cali, I can't think of a single major > earthquake > > that went more than 2 days without an outpooring of aid from > various > > state and federal agencies. You might make the argument > that the areas > > were not under water, but the challenges were just as great. > Roads and > > bridges out, structures collapsing, no electricity ... > > Well, considering the USCG was flying within a day of the > storm passing, > this disaster response falls within your criteria. Given that > anyone who has > actually been in the area claims its worse than anything > they've seen, > adding an extra day to your two quoted above isn't out of > reason. > > -- > Max > > Give a man a match, and he is warm for a short while. Light > him on fire, and > he is warm for the rest of his life. >
> > > The entire city is not under water. Western amd > Northwestern NO are > > "dry". So, yes, planes could drop supplies there. Large > boats cannot > > navigate through the city, but they can supply the coastline > to the > > west of NO and take in supplies on smaller boats. Not > perfect, but > > better than NOTHING, which is what they got. > > > > And ... are you telling me that a handful of helicopters is > the best we > > can do? I read that less than 50 helicopters were involved. > > > > I tried to find some research I did in college on > earthquakes, to no > > avail. However, in Cali, I can't think of a single major > earthquake > > that went more than 2 days without an outpooring of aid from > various > > state and federal agencies. You might make the argument > that the areas > > were not under water, but the challenges were just as great. > Roads and > > bridges out, structures collapsing, no electricity ... > > > > > > Craig C. > >
We dropped the ball on this one, plain and simple. Now we didnt screw up near as bad as the paper, media, etc are saying. We should of had help there a day sooner than we did. We cant prepare for every Major storm before it happens, so waiting to see the damages was an acceptable move, But if you read the papers or watch the news you will see the levys broke After the storm, thats what caused a good deal of damage. If we wernt extending our forces, we would have more to send. But the help that did arrive had to come via Trained high powered assult rifles. Its hard to help people who are shooting at you. this just isnt a few dozen people, but hundreds. Ever try freeing a wild animal from a trap? you may be trying to help it, but since everytime you get close it bites at you there is only so much you can do.
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Absolutely. We have sent aid to other countries faster than this.
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If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"Roy" < snipped-for-privacy@home.net> wrote in message
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Name one time it happened faster than this. Simple time line: Day 1, Tuesday) Assessment of situation and needs. Day 2, Wednesday) Logistical planning and gathering of supplies and personnel Day 3, Thursday) Deployment to region Day 4, Friday) Operation commences
Three days to get on scene and operational. Not bad.
--
Max

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Bzzzz ... sorry Max.
Monday evening Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama called for help. Even if they hadn't, we should have been better prepared at the federal level. Not one single person at FEMA doubted that this was going to be a national disasater, 24 hours BEFORE it happened.
It does not take 24 hours to assess the situation. Less than 4 hours. I agree on 24 hours for gathering of supplies. Now we're at approximately 30 hours. 24 hours for deployment? Are they having a deployment party too? Much of the equipment and supplies came from right here in good ole Texas. Doesn't take 24 hours to get to NO, even when it's under water. I say 12 hours.
That's 42 hours ... let's round up to 48. At the latest ... Thursday morning. That's if you do EVERYTHING by road.
It amazes me that ANYONE can defend the response time. If Clinton were still in office and he had dragged his ass like this, you'd be on fire.
Craig C.
Craig C.
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