guns on campus

Keep in mind that I am one of this places elders. I can remember back when I went to college and students openly carried guns. One physics class the project was to calculate the speed of a bullet. To do this a wood 6x6 was hung by two strings from the ceiling and a line with a piece of paper was strung along the

6x6. By measuring the distance the paper was moved one could calculate how much the 6x6 was raised, etc. In the previous class the professor asked if anyone would bring in a gun along with extra ammo so we could weigh the projectiles for the experiment. One student ageed and we fired the gun into the 6x6, a 38 I believe, inside the class room! It made one hell of a noise but I can't remember anyone even coming to the door to see what was going on.

My point is back when it was easy to pack shit like what happened today just didn't happen.

Flame away.

beekeep

Reply to
beekeep
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another testament to what i was saying in the other thread...

Reply to
Chris Thompson

No flame at all from here. It's legal in the state of Virginia to carry a concealed weapon at VT (as long as you have a concealed carry permit, of course). It's VT policy, however, that anyone found doing so will be expelled. "You don't need a gun on campus - you're safe here", they said. "If anyone ever needs the police, just use the call boxes around campus".

Had even a few students been allowed to protect themselves, and by extension others around them, this tragedy would have been minimized.

VT's staff and policies are the reason over 30 people were killed.... first, they prohibit their student body from having the ability to defend themselves, stating that they can protect them better, then they fail to follow through on that protection.

Reply to
Tom Lawrence

Yup, society really is safer when law abinding citizens can carry concealed weapons and the criminals don't know who is carrying.

Reply to
Ed H.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

God, we ask that you be with these families, come into their hearts tonight, be with them, let them feel your presence. We pray God, that those who have fallen come unto you and your mercy be shown.

in the name of our Lord,Jesus Christ.

amen

Reply to
Marsh Monster

No flaming, but respectful disagreement. You couldn't be much older than me, if at all. I went to University of Texas. I don't recall students openly carrying guns. As a matter of fact, students not carrying guns is a good thing. For one, Freshmen are 18 years old and wet behind the ears. Second, as much as we drank back then, and what the kids do now; the last I want is guns and alcohol. Now picture a scenario where a gunman comes into a class, and opens fire. Then if 1/4 of the class of sub 22 year olds are packing, take out there firearms, then chaos and bullets fly everywhere; and if the gunmen actually does get hit, so do alot of other unarmed bystanders. Also, the gunman would change his tactics with respect to everyone packing; and the bodycount is the same, if not higher. How about finding a way to keep people from popping a circuit, and recognizes signs of someone about to do something like this, instead of debating the gun issue?

Reply to
Xclimation

I can think of at least 31 students who would probably disagree with that fact.

I believe current US law requires one to be 21 to purchase a handgun, and therefore most states' CCW laws (for those states who believe in freedom) require the person to be 21.

I believe most states have severe punishments for those who consume alcohol while carrying a firearm. Since those who apply for and receive CCW permits/licenses tend to follow the law, it's not unreasonable to think that the firearm/alcohol problem wouldn't be a problem.

Picture another scenario, where the gunman, knowing that he has the only firearm in the room, lines everyone up against the wall and kills them one after another. But hey - at least there weren't any "accidental" shootings.

You mean like not walking into a building, locking everyone in, and picking people off at will?

Obviously, the current philosophy isn't working... so there's two other choices:

A. Ban all firearms. Ask the Brits or Aussies how well that works... B. Allow people to defend themselves by carrying their own weapon.

Okay - that's option C - mind control. I gotta admit, I missed that one.

Let's put you in a room with 100 random people. If you can pick out the one who's going to lose his mind tomorrow, I'll back your plan. Until then, option B still looks like the best plan to me.

Reply to
Tom Lawrence

Damn you! You ruined my plans for tomorrow! I was thinking about going postal!

Reply to
azwiley1

I always worried about you, Larry :)

Reply to
Tom Lawrence

I remember the shootings at Texas from the clock tower but IIRC they didn't involve a hand gun and hand guns would have been useless unless you were Frank Cannon.

Sub 22 year olds is what our goverment preferrs to give weapons too to fight our wars.

beekeep

Reply to
beekeep

Now picture a scenario where a gunman comes into a class, and opens fire.

I've come to believe "everyone packing" would have a calming effect on society in the longer run, perhaps after an initial bloodbath where it takes criminal and emotionally unstable types to get the message that they don't necessarily "outgun" the people around them, and caution in behavior is required.

Eventually, because there are so many more good people to whackos, the whackos get ground down to non-existence, or learn to keep a lid on their behavior lest very bad things happen to them.

One must wonder how one can do this, especially in an environment where ones' individual rights are not to be violated in any way before there is reason; i.e. before someone actually does something bad.

I think it would be easier to impress upon the unstable/criminal that there really are personal costs to be paid if one doesn't maintain a cork or their social behavior.

With everyone packing a gun, I'll bet civil discourse would improve dramatically over a long run!

SMH

Reply to
Stephen Harding

The shooter at VT may have been a "law abiding citizen" until yesterday.

JAM

Reply to
Bill Dunkenfield

Would that be the same god that stood by and allowed this to happen?

JAM

Reply to
Bill Dunkenfield

Of course there is severe punishment for possesion under the influence. Do you think a 21 year old thinks of this? Do me a favor, and study possible scenarios if at least 1/4 of 50 people had a gun. First off, a percentage will panic, and unload anywhere. Another percentage will unload on anything that moves. A trained police officer at a range of 10 feet with a handgun in a firefight will hit the intended target an average of 2-3 times per 10 shots. Don't believe me? Ask a police officer or someone who knows what they are talking about. I am talking a trained police officer who has experience, extensive training and practice, and who has to requalify every year. I am also considering the gun man not wearing body armour, because that changes things as well. The problem is people either watch too much TV, or only shoot in a range under ideal conditions, and do not understand just how inaccurate a hand gun really is. I am not advocating taking everyone's guns away. I just think the whole thought process of advocating everyone to carry a firearm is ridiculous. Also, something that is never talked about is the mental affect of carrying a firearm. I'm talking about the superiority complex some get when carrying a firearm. This is something that is also studied, and I encourage others to do their own research for themselves on it. I call it the Deputy Dawg syndrome. If the gunman lines up everyone as you say, then at least this gives extra time for a trained individual to respond, as well as give the gunman a chance to think twice. I'll take my chances with this, over bullets flying wildly everyone, not giving a chance for the situation to be controlled. As I said, I'm not for banning all firearms, but if you want to ask the Brits or Aussies as you state; you will notice that these mass shootings do not happen as near as much as here in the United States. Do you think that no one in Great Britian or Australia has a firearm? Maybe, I recommend famialiarizing yourself with the gun laws of these countries. A private citizen can own a firearm in these countries. Your "mind control" argument is over reaching don't you think? I never said anything about mind control. With all due respect, This sounds like the Black Helicopter conspiracy theorists that are in militias. I'm talking about researching the root cause of what makes one malfunction like this. Whether you like it or not, science will find a way to recognize these individuals before something like this happens.

"Tom Lawrence" wrote in message news:cjYUh.22411$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...

Reply to
Xclimation

To add further to this: Do you think we would have world peace if we gave every country a nuclear weapon?

Reply to
Xclimation

Maybe.

Nuclear weaponry forces a form of self-regulation that has never occurred before because everyone understands the weapon is a horrible one.

Look at the US-USSR. For 60 years, two nations, intensely hostile towards one another, armed to the teeth, don't go to war [directly] against one another!

Has anything like that ever happened before in human history?

Not certain but it must be a very unlikely situation.

Maybe there is something to be said for every nation having nuclear weapons, and every individual carrying a .45, in the name of world peace and social harmony of course!

SMH

Reply to
Stephen Harding

Whether others are actually hitting anything or not, the gunman surely is ducking a bit, being more cautious in what he's doing. Bullets don't need to be hitting someone in order to have effect. Most bullets in combat situations do not hit their marks. Doesn't mean your head isn't down in the dirt any less!

How does the "Deputy Dawg syndrome" fare when *everyone else* has a gun? I should think the air of superiority diminishes along with the sense of invulnerability.

The US is definitely a more violent nation than any European nation.

Nonetheless, it's not like firearms were unavailable to the masses before the last 10-20 years. The US population has always had easy access to guns, and until recently, never had these sorts of incident occurring.

The "wild west" was no where near as violent as our inner cities and now, apparently, our schools and colleges. Something else is at work in the US beyond mere access to weaponry.

I'll maintain it is social isolation stemming from our "car culture" that indirectly creates social isolation. All this is enhanced by the breakdown of American families. No "Uncle John" or "Grandma Brown" for "therapy" when troubles occur. Even Mom and Dad, assuming they are even together, are busy earning cash for the Bimmer and Merc and 5000 sq ft home and summer house in Maine. And on and on it goes.

We're a nation of social isolationists and when lifes challenges occur, individuals are on their own, without ever learning what disciplined behavior and solution of problems entails.

Science may be able to do so, but I wonder if we have the political will to act upon what Science tells us? When personal rights collide with "scientifically derived indicators of behavior", I suspect science will lose big time.

SMH

Reply to
Stephen Harding

The whole US should be like Vermont. In Vermont, any citizen can carry a concealed firearm so long as they are not carrying it with illegal intent.

A gun is like a calculator. It just sits there until you need it. There were about forty people directly involved with the shooter. Perhaps that many or MORE who were close enough to hit him with a baseball.

Out of that amount of people (I'd say at least 100), if someone had a gun, the day might have ended differently.

Steve

Reply to
Steve B

"Bill Dunkenfield" wrote

Yeah, that be the same God. Just because people believe in God, it does not exempt them from bad things or death. It just has to do with what happens to them after death.

When men stand by and allow these things to happen because of liberal legislation, civil rights, constitutional nomenclature, gaping loopholes, and just plain permissive attitudes, where in the world does a God figure enter the picture who's supposed to keep everything fair and make everything right?

BTW, I saw a lot of cops standing around for a lot of time yesterday, too.

Steve

Reply to
Steve B

I saw a bunch of them running too. Must have been free doughnuts somewhere!

beekeep

Reply to
beekeep

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