Steve, I guess you never read anything I have posted. I used to drive from
AZ to NY once a year. Total trip distance was 2283 miles (close enough for
you) and I did exactly what you are asking to be done. How long it took me,
about a day to pack and about two days to find out the "general" state law
for each of the states I drove through. I'm not sure why you seem to have
such a problem with it.
And attitude is 99.9% of it, too. Having the gun inoperable and
inaccessible, and telling the officer about it within 30 seconds of the time
he stops you speaks a lot for you. Trying to sit there and argue the law in
the state you're from versus the town you're in is a recipe for disaster.
But then, carrying an inoperable inaccessible defensive weapon is kind of an
I don't have a problem with it. I'm sure that you're sure about the laws in
the areas that you have traveled to. The United States is a very large
place. Laws vary immensely from place to place. In my own tip of Southern
Nevada, there are four different sets of laws in the same metropolitan area,
and that is within only one state and one county.
To suggest that all laws in every state, county, municipality and
unincorporated area of the United States can be monitored, recorded,
updated, and kept up with, by any one individual is giving that individual a
lot of credit.
You found out the "general" law in each state that you drove through. What
you don't seem to understand is that, like here in Nevada, you can drive
through a town in a state, and that town requires totally different things
of even CCF holders. Such as weapon in trunk, bullets in glove box, weapon
in locked box, ammunition in separate locked box, etc. I think that if you
spent the days it would take to research every little town you went through,
or got off to get gas or hamburgers at, that you might find that you were
actually in violation of that jurisdiction's gun laws.
Knowing the "general" laws of the state does not exempt you from following
the laws of the two block street you might be on while dodging off the
Interstate for gas. And bubba, those local Barney Fifes are notorious for
generating income for their little burgs by snagging city boys who want to
tell them all about how the laws are ..... in the city.
Our last CCF course was ten hours, up from six for the first, eight for the
second. One added section was the changes in the three bordering
municipalitiy's laws that affect CCF holders of state permits while in those
municipalities. So, you can go to a class, learn the last set of laws, and
still get nailed if the laws change before you get to a renewal class and
learn the new ones.
Multiply that by 25,884,599 and you have an idea of why I say "One size
don't fit all" ......... that general state rules don't always apply in all
the small towns. That's not my problem, but the thought that I'm trying to
You're exageratting the issue way overboard making it far more difficult
that reality. You don't need to know every single vehicle gun law in
every city, county and state. Only what the strictest is on your travel
route. Not that tough to find out for a given state. Furthermore its
only an issue if you have a need to only comply with in a bare minimal
Exactly. Go with the strictest state laws and you're fine for your trip.
If you it is too tough for you to comply then don't take your gun.
I have owned multiple Motorhomes and travel trailers. I converse with a lot
of people along the way. I have just heard too many stories from these
people who were stopped for a tail light, searched, and either terribly
inconvenienced and let go, or terribly inconvenienced and let go lighter by
different amounts of cash.
I'm not basing my opinions on my own paranoia or personal thoughts. I'm
basing it on quite a few stories I was told firsthand by people who lived
You must be old enough to know that most policemen have it in their minds
when they stop you whether or not they're going to check you, cite you, or
really give you a going over. And lots of times, it has to do with things
like they're having a bad hair day or not getting any or a lot of things
other than the actual situation at hand.
You can get clear. You can get off. You can get a clear record.
Eventually. It just costs you a pretty good chunk of change.
Safety stops is something far more common in the east than the west.
There is no vehicle safety inspection here in AZ in order to get license
tags for instance. It's a rare day that a cop will pull someone over
for bald tires, busted windshield etc. I have heard this is pretty
common in the east.
Actually, guy, I'm not arguing. I'm just trying to make the point that
there are literally millions of laws in lots of small towns all over the US,
and none of us have the vast intellect and body of experience to know them
all, or to keep current on them no matter how many trips we make to nra.org.
Some will argue that they do, but then loose credibility when they can't
even spell correctly. <g>
Actually Steve, again it is not that hard to find the information you
say we "can't know" this is the site that I had refered too and if you
take the time to read through it, you will see, as example, New York
lists the over all state laws and then goes on to list the individual
county laws. Now, is this to say that it is 100% complete or 100
accurate, I don't know, but if you were unable to find the info you
need on here, I would say there is a problem with your eyes.
You're very welcome Ed. I hope that you and anyone else reading this thread
with any interest and had the common sense to actually look at the link will
find it useful. Contrary to what one pompous ass thinks, no where did I
ever state that I knew EVERY law in EVERY jurisdiction, I simply stated as
did a few others, that his claims of not being able to find the information
is pure B.S.
Anyone smart enough to read the info on the link would plainly see that the
info is broken down by states, and includes everything from what other
states permits they honor, to travel requirements, to individual counties
(again, which we have been told by Steve couldn't be known) additional laws.
Now please feel free to let me know what it is about my writings that you
can not understand, as according to one self-righteous, pompous individual,
I have an inability in writing, speaking, and communicating effectively. :)
Laws, courts, and police officers don't operate on an "I don't know" basis.
Even if they're wrong, they'll take some sort of action. They don't accept
"I don't know" as an answer either.
On the one hand, you say you researched the laws, you traveled the
territory, you're certain about these things, yet then on the other hand
say, "I don't know".
Which is it?
What the hell are you talking about? You obviously have a read and/or
comprehension problem (again). My "I don't know" was directed at the site
not the laws. You need to read more and jump less Steve, if you did, you
have understood what was written.
Either that, or you need to be more concise in communicating your ideas.
As an example:
I just read:
You obviously have a read and/or
comprehension problem (again).
I do not understand what a "read" problem is.
Until you can write in a manner that concisely conveys your thoughts, ideas,
and positions, there is a small chance that I could continue to misconstrue
what you write.
It is obvious that you are not going to do that any time soon, so I give up
on you. You write as a sixth grader, and I just don't get what it is you
are saying. This is just one example of your writing style, and I choose
not to participate any longer.
Good luck in your life pursuits.
Now, say goodbye, Gracie.
With all due respect, Steve. One as intelligent as yourself should be able
to use the context in which another writes to interpret what the other
means. Because you are retired at 58, either you have been lucky, or smart
and hard working enough, to amass sufficient wealth to retire at an early
age. Personnally, I don't believe in luck, therefore, I assume you are an
intelligent, hard worker.
You can stick to your argument that because another doesn't always use
proper grammar, spelling and punctuation, you don't understand what the
other is trying to convey, but I think you realize you have lost the debate
based on logic, therefore you rely on the language barrier argument as a
means to deny your logic is questionable.
Many positions in this tread have merit. Your's, "being ignorant of the law
is no excuse for breaking the law," and "the internet is not a sufficient
source of information (one which I concur with)" and other's "taking
reasonable measures to stay within the intent of the law, even if falling
outside of the letter of the law" are examples.
It occurs to me that one way to stay within the letter of the law is, prior
to travelling through a jurisdiction, call them (I don't know of a
jurisdiction which doesn't publish their contact information) and ask what
are the current laws, or at least what are the changes to the law as of the
last date one knew them to be.
Furthermore, your example of being forthright with all law enforcement
personnel you encounter makes a lot of sense. I have been stopped for
legitimate reasons, ranging from a burned out turn indicator, to speeding in
excess of 25 MPH over the limit, to suspected DUI, and more often than not,
I get a warning (and sometimes an explaination of the law I was violating)
because I was courteous and honest with the cop. I wonder if some the
stories others have told you included the whole truth.
Think what you will, Mr. H. I am just done with arguing with a twit who
can't understand the fact that I don't believe that he knows every law in
every burg and small town in the United States. Although he continues to
assert that he does.
I cannot expect that he can assimilate or absorb the sites and cites, let
alone the logic and discussions posted by myself or others if he cannot
conduct basic conversational English in a relaxed atmosphere such as this
forum. Any time anyone bests him, he launches into a childish profane rant.
I need not prove anything about myself to you or anyone else. I've had a
rough and tumble life, been on many adventures, made and lost more than one
fortune, made some brilliant moves, made some absolutely dumb moves, which
brings me to the point I am today. I am retired, live very comfortably, and
have enough to do so for the next hundred years at this pace. I spend
different seasons in multiple states.
As for my forthrightness about my law enforcement experiences, and my
truthfulness, again, I have no need to explain anything.
Let me just say that I pass very easily through multiple jurisdictions
within the nearly two million people I live among because of my
qualifications, certifications, commissions, and network associations.
Plus, I do live 100% within the law, and that helps a lot. I do not fear
being stopped by the authorities, and haven't been stopped in nine years.
They either see my vehicular ID and don't stop me, or see my personal ID,
and the stop is over with a quick ID check. Or a quick ticket, as was the
case nine years ago when I bumped a guy who was riding in my blind spot with
my motorhome. The guy sure was pissed that I knew the traffic officer, and
that we were joking around while he was writing me a ticket. I guess he
wanted the officer to beat me with his nightstick.
The officer said to me, "You know I have to scratch you." (write me a
ticket), and the guy I hit insisted on an explanation on what that meant.
The traffic officer politely explained, then asked the man to go sit in his
Life is good.
How's things in your neck of the woods?
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