guns on campus

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Xclimation wrote:


Whether others are actually hitting anything or not, the gunman surely is ducking a bit, being more cautious in what he's doing. Bullets don't need to be hitting someone in order to have effect. Most bullets in combat situations do not hit their marks. Doesn't mean your head isn't down in the dirt any less!

How does the "Deputy Dawg syndrome" fare when *everyone else* has a gun? I should think the air of superiority diminishes along with the sense of invulnerability.

The US is definitely a more violent nation than any European nation.
Nonetheless, it's not like firearms were unavailable to the masses before the last 10-20 years. The US population has always had easy access to guns, and until recently, never had these sorts of incident occurring.
The "wild west" was no where near as violent as our inner cities and now, apparently, our schools and colleges. Something else is at work in the US beyond mere access to weaponry.
I'll maintain it is social isolation stemming from our "car culture" that indirectly creates social isolation. All this is enhanced by the breakdown of American families. No "Uncle John" or "Grandma Brown" for "therapy" when troubles occur. Even Mom and Dad, assuming they are even together, are busy earning cash for the Bimmer and Merc and 5000 sq ft home and summer house in Maine. And on and on it goes.
We're a nation of social isolationists and when lifes challenges occur, individuals are on their own, without ever learning what disciplined behavior and solution of problems entails.

Science may be able to do so, but I wonder if we have the political will to act upon what Science tells us? When personal rights collide with "scientifically derived indicators of behavior", I suspect science will lose big time.
SMH
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If you are going to look at it from a psycological point of view then you must consider that the people that do these types of things are generally cowards in the first place and would think twice before commiting such acts.

These are the people that end up going into law enforcement so they end up carrying a gun anyway.

The perp's accuracy would be greatly reduced if he's seeking cover. The total number killed would likely be reduced.

soldiers dying every week abroad? The news is all about the senseless deaths, yet they never mention the numbers that die in auto accidents every year. That number is equal to two full 747s going down every week! I see the "gun banners" are coming out of the wood work again. They just don't get it.
beekeep
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As soon as some of these schools wake up and start allowing their student body to protect and defend themselves (God knows the school can't do it), and another event like this is thwarted because of lawful concealed carry, then we'll have something to study. Until then, we only have your made-up "what-if" scenario prejudiced by your own beliefs that guns are bad, and they make people do bad things with them.

I never said arm everyone. I'm saying allow those who have made the decision to carry, to do so. Not everyone's comfortable with a weapon hanging off their hip. That's fine - but don't deny the right of self-protection to those who want it for themselves.

You mean the added responsibility and the heightened awareness? Yeah, obviously both bad things...

It's not as I say... it's what ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

Or better his aim.... seems in this scenario, his mind was pretty-well made up. And at that point, ANYTHING is preferable to what occurred.

You said, "find a way to keep people from popping a circuit". How exactly would do you do that? (For the record, I don't believe in mind control, I don't think there are black helicopters hovering over my house, and I don't think tin foil make a particularly effective hat)

Yes, probably through DNA screening upon conception, followed by selective termination of those fetuses deemed "potential threats" to the State.... and so will emerge a master race. Gee, sounds like a wonderful society... count me out.
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Tom Lawrence wrote:

Raise the number of guns in society for those that feel they need to protect themselves and you will have a proportional increase in the number of idiots carrying a gun. Why? Because an idiot wants the gun for the same reason as anyone else.
I haven't read any stats that prove that gun owners are less likely to be a victim of a gun crime.
That said I don't have any desire to take guns away. I just don't want to make it easier to obtain one. It shouldn't be so easy.
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Okay - what about it is too easy for you?
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Tom Lawrence wrote:

Depends on what state. Anyone without a felony conviction can go buy one almost as easy as buying a beer at the local 7-11. Sales at gun shows may need to be looked into to see what can be done. I really don't know what the best solution is but currently its too easy for any idiot to easily and quickly obtain a gun. It's more difficult to get a drivers license than it is a gun.
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Okay - so what more do you want done other than a background check? You claim it's too easy - what do you think will make things 'safer', without stepping on that pesky little annoyance that some of us like to refer to as the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution?

Bad analogy. Any idiot can go in and buy a car, as well. To use the driver's license comparison, you'd need to compare it to one obtaining a carry permit - which in the vast majority of the states that issue such a permit (imagine - not being allowed to operate a motor vehicle in a few states) a training course and competency test is required.... gee, just like is required for a driver's license.
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Tom Lawrence wrote:

Not really. With a car one needs to register and license it. Technically the same as a gun right? Thats where the similarity ends. If you fail to register and license a car it's very likely you'll get caught. Not so with a gun. It's easier to get a gun without anyone knowing you have it.
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No you don't. Only if you intend on driving legally around on public roads would you need to do any of that. If you are going to a crowded place to run people over who cares. Slap some stolen plates on, find a crowd, punch gas pedal. IT'S TO EASY! SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!
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Gun owners may be just as likely to be the intended victim of a crime, but according to the US dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, each year about 2 million crimes are prevented by an armed citizen. That's about 5 times more often than when guns are used in the commission of a crime. Of course, those numbers only reflect what is reported to law enforcement.
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What do you base that on?
A few items of interest -Florida's Homicide rate dropped from 37% above the national average to 3% below the national average after the state changed it's concealed carry law in 1987.
-A study conducted by Don B. Kates Jr., at the St. Louis University School of Law found that while police were successful in shooting or driving off criminals 68% of the time private citizens succeeded 83% of the time. And, while 11% of the individuals involved in police shootings were later found to be innocent people who were misidentified as criminals, only 2% of those in civilian shootings were misidentified. Finally private citizens in urban areas encounter and kill up to 3 times as many criminals as do law enforcement personnel.
-Another, goverment funded survey of 1,874 felons conducted by Peter Rossi and James Wright found that 40% of the felons said they decided not to commit a crime because the feared the citizen was carring a firearm. 34% had been scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed citizen.
I can't find the supporting evidence, but I remember reading a study several years ago that if 10% of the population has a concealed firearm the crime rate drops dramatically.
I don't think your scenario has much basis in fact.
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Ed H. wrote:

<snip>

Why don't we base the scenario on what gun-totin' AZpunkinhead just wrote in the _other_ gun thread?
"You're DAMN right if someone breaks into my house I am going to shoot them!! Why the fuck would you feel other wise? You're right, it is not up to me to prove "he" was armed and that my life or that of my family was in danger. It is up to the "state pros" to prove that my life and/or that of my families WASN"T."
Let see, a thug breaks a window or door to get into my house, weapon in hand. I am in bed, pistol very near by (with in arms reach from laying in bed) and loaded as it always is, you HONESTLY think that I can not reach my pistol and be at ready to protect me and my family? You honestly think that I would not be awoken by noises and such around my house that are out of the norm? Damn man, are you that dense?
BTW, unlike a gun toting "thug" I am tried to engage a target and shoot for a kill. I am trained to do so under pressure, under extreme circumstances, and do it calmly and effectively. A feening dope head and/or your "common" thug most likely will not be able to do the same, so who do you think will come out alive if it came to it?"
Punkin is exactly the sort who will bolt out of bed firing at that shadowy "thug", then turn on the light and discover that he's just shot his own kid. I've read it before.
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<BIG SNIP>
How about you come break into my house you trolling piece of shit, you would be well worth a .357 being spent. You know how about you stay the fuck out of my dealings asshole.
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If a .357 Magnum would be your choice of weapons, then I think you are a clueless short dicked egghead. Clueless short dicked eggheads prefer large caliber pistols and lift kits on their trucks. You could kill someone a mile away with one of those rounds. They will definitely go through several layers of home construction.
There is nothing like a shotgun for home defense. And a pump, at that. Very reliable. Don't have to be very accurate. Just cocking it in the dark is enough to make a grown man wet themselves. The projectiles don't travel nearly as far as a regular bullet. But you knew that, right, Mr. Gun Expert?
Firing a .357 Magnum wildly, with other people in the house in unknown locations. Well, at least the chances are VERY GOOD that you will kill SOMEONE. And don't forget to get the extra capacity clip for the revolver.
I have the five shot S&W Stainless model with 2" barrel as a carry weapon. If you find the big clips, please let me know where, so I can buy one. And where can I get a REALLY big holster for that combo?
Steve ......... ;-)
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On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:38:02 -0700, "Steve B"

steve
don't mean this personally but if you wanna go off and sound like a big tough guy, at least chose a subject that you have some clue about what the fuck you are talking about.
just saying man.
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And you're talking about what, in particular?
Please notice the smiley face at the end.
Anyone who would consider a .357 pistol as a home defense weapon obviously doesn't know a lot about ballistics.
Hint: the part about the clip for the revolver and the part about the holster for said combination was a joke, son.
Steve
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You're not much a commedian, son. You need to work more on your jokes and less on your insults if you want to be funny, son.

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Sorry to hear about your humor impairedness, and do hope it improves.
Steve
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On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:02:14 -0700, "Steve B"

keep your day job steve, you'll never make it as a comedian dad.

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I'm sorry you missed the humor of some here taking the bait ..............
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