Hybrids Gas Mileage in the real world...INTERESTING !

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One argument I encounter a lot when I mention to gassers that I want a Diesel is "ohh, its hard to find diesel" apparently, they never actually look for it. However, they have a point, there are about half as many Diesel stations then gas station around here (that means I only have about 50 diesel stations in a ten mile radius) If they want something to replace gas they need the infrastructure to back it. You can buy gas on just about every corner, but where do you fill with natural gas, or hydrogen? If the government mandated that every gas station was to carry hydrogen and natural gas, then people might be a little more open to the idea.
I am looking forward to seeing $4/gallon gas prices! I want to see all those escalade owners and H2 owners and all those kids that were given a Ford F250 v10 for graduating highschool to spend $120 each time they fill! and it will just cost me $20 to fill my motorcycle!
Something that would work well for me is an electric car with a solar panel roof. it would spend just about its entire life outside, and most of the time, parked. Leave it outside for nine hours while I'm at work, and its fully charged for the drive home! never have to fill it, never have to plug it in! If only they were not so UGLY!!
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snipped-for-privacy@metronet.com wrote:

But that would hurt his buds in the oil industry. You know, the ones who are largely resposible for getting him into office.
AP
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snipped-for-privacy@metronet.com wrote:

Ah, yes. The mythical "hydrogen economy". Greenwash at its best.
AP
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Agreed, and you can include India and the Ukraine into that mix as well. The point is that this strain isn't going to go away and we have a choice to make. We can either do our part to help reduce the demand or not. Justifications to continue as we have sound good but mean nothing and will ultimately cost us big time.
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Doing nothing is still a desision, and is just as costly.
The demand may still rise, but if we get away from it, then not only will that lower the global demand (at least for a little while), but it will allow the US market to spend that money elsewhere. and let the rest of the world deal with the oil shortage.
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Bob G wrote:
[snip]

If you don't think small cars offer enough horsepower then you haven't been looking at the right small cars. Looked at import tuners lately? A Toyota Supra with the appropriate bolt on kit can put 1000 HP under your right foot. Is that enough? A cousin of mine has a Lexus sports car with 300hp under the hood right off the lot. Its performance is somewhere between crazy and insane.
With the hybrids, when that electric motor kicks in the accelleration can be neck snapping. Electric motors have a property called "locked rotor torque", which is the torque applied with the rotor held still. It's the highest torque the motor can pull, and it's available right off the line. When a hybrid comes off the line all of the electric motor's torque is available instantly, which is one of the reasons they have reasonably good acceleration off the line even with their heavy load of batteries.

Hmm... Do you have a source for that?
One thing I recall reading about China is that they're the largest emerging market for cars in the world, and all of the manufacturers are climbing over each other to get sales rights over there.

Indeed, that is a good question. I think how much depends on the greed of the oil companies and the patience of consumers.
AP
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But driving around in an economy vehicle just doesn't look cool and the typical driver simply cannot have that. It is much better to look cool and do without lots of money that could be used for other things, isn't it?
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving



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OK so lets do some calculating. I drive a car or truck about 9,000 miles a year. My current vehicles get 12 MPG average so I use 750 gallons of gas a year at $2 per gal that is $1500. All my vehicles are paid for so no payment to make plus they are older so license and insurance are relatively low also repairs which I can do are very cheap.
So now if I buy one of these new vehicles that get 60 MPG I would use 150 gallons at $2 per gal $300 for fuel. I expect that my insurance would be about $300 more and my license would be at least $100 more. So $300 + $300 + $100 = $700 now subtract that from $1500 I end up with $800/year for a car payment or $66 per month. Think I can find a dealer that will sell me one of these fuel efficient cars for a payment of $66 a month ?
We could work this backwards to find out at what price gas will have to get to before I would be equal to the new car payment.
Now if I was driving 90,000 a year I am sure I would be rushing to a dealer to buy one.
Ron
TBone wrote:

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I have seen five year old trucks for sale with over 400k miles on them.
I know quite a few people that commute over 60 miles each way for work. That comes out to over 31k miles a year in JUST commuting to work. Its not just the fuel economy though, its the size of the vehicles. One full size consumes just about as much space as two economy cars. If we got rid of the unnecessary big SUVs and trucks, then traffic would not be as bad ether.. and with better traffic comes a higher average speed, approaching closer to a more efficient speed for the engine. allowing the engine to operate in its more efficient range AND less time is spent sitting in traffic. Less traffic, less stress, less road rage, lower blood pressure and less medication due to stress induced ailments. something else to think about 2000-3000 pounds of steel and aluminum. compared to 5000-7000 pounds of steel and aluminum. Not only would our dependence on foreign oil go down, but our need for steel and aluminum (as well as the needed energy to manipulate that raw materials) will go down. lowering the price of the raw materials associated with building the cars. Smaller tires, less rubber. less glass, less plastic. All materials that we ether produce or import, but what if our consumption was less then our production? then we could export these materials and actually bring some money into this country!
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I would have to completely agree! come on now, really, can you put a price on the cost of popularity?? Geez, I wouldn't be caught dead riding on last season's wheels! ;-) I wonder, is there a three month lease program?? then I can ALWAYS have something new and trendy!
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TBone wrote: [snip]

Depends on who you are, I suppose. There are some insecure men who just need that Penis Enhancement Vehicle.
AP
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I like to refer to it as "small manhood syndrome"

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wrote:

these... wonderful... Hybrids were getting such poor (relative to their advertised ) fuel mileage...
Not surprised on the mileage your moms Civic got on the trip...
Hell my Corvette got 34 mpg on a 400 mile run down the interstate ..with the speed control set at 82 mph... no starting or stopping very little acceleration...pretty level terrain...
Still 30 percent less then your moms car...but it made me happy...
Bob....
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Why should this surprise you? If you actually read what was said, you would see that these cars were being driven in their worst possible way and under the worst conditions. If you operate them as they were intended, the mileage would get much closer to what they are advertized to be in many situations.

Yea, because you were driving it under ideal conditions and not the way it was intended to be driven. If you get on it (since it is a sports car) in the city, I bet that you get about half of that mileage.

I'm sure that it does but that is not realistic driving and I'll bet that a hybrid under those conditions (perhaps not that fast) would be getting closer to 60 MPG. You really need to compare apples to apples.
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Nonsense - it's exactly the opposite. Advertised mileage is almost always fiction. For many people, the way those cars were driven are considered normal driving.

Just like hybrids will get less than half their advertised mileage when they're driven under real world (i.e., horrible) conditions.

It's very simple - hybrids driven normally in the real world don't get anywhere near their advertised mileage.
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For the few who complained, I suspect that to be true but once again, they were not driving them the way they were intended to be driven. The example that you gave also had the defroster on all of the time which was a worst case condition for that type of vehicle. I think that I used my defroster about 20 times since I bought it in 97 and I lived in NJ for most of that time so the constant use of the defroster is not a common thing. If you also want to try and drive it like a sports car then the mileage will be significantly reduced but they are not sports cars.

And what is the advertized mileage of your Vette? The simple fact is that they are capable of significant mileage if you drive them that way and even though that cannot be done all of the time, they will still ALWAYS do better than your Vette under similar situations.

And your proof of this is where and exactly what is your definition of normal?
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to be honest my heater is on almost all winter...and my defroster is used almost every morning... In the summer I can and normally do drive without the air conditioner..... But many people use it all the time during the summer...

Chevelle ( I am in the car hobby)...and have a computer in each garage into which I record every nut, bolt, drop of oil, gallon of gasoline, etc for each of my cars.... The overall average MPG on that Corvette is 24.2 mpg over the entire 69,923 miles I have driven it since new... I will admit that I do not race around town in the car and generally have a fairly light foot... The Chevelle is another story... but I use it differently ...very differently...usually 1./4 mile at a time...
Enjoy
Bob Griffiths
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A friend at work has a daily driven Corvette (C6?? not the brand new one, I think its a 2003) she says that with her lead foot, she gets about 19 in the city, and about 30 on her road trips (usually with a lot of triple digit cruising in there) When the car weighs nothing, and has a very low RPM engine traveling at a high speed, it all adds up.
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wrote:

And what is that? You buy a car and you drive it however you drive it. Obviously, if you drive as efficiently as possile, you'll get better mileage than if you race from stoplight to stoplight.

I used to live in NJ years ago, and you always drove with the defroster on in the morning simply because of the humidity. Now I live in Florida, and everybody always drives with the A/C on 24/7/365. I suspect it's the same from here through Texas and beyond.
The point is that a _lot_ of people use the defroster and a/c a lot more than you might think. That's "normal" driving.

The Corvette is someone else's.

Exactly like the hybrids, and every other vehicle on the road.

My "proof" is what most people are experiencing right now. "Normal" is how most people drive. Most people do not drive the way advertised (i.e., maximum) mileage is achieved. That's not "normal".
The next time you go out on the road, observe how most people drive. They're not driving at a steady 45 on a flat, smooth road with no defroster or a/c on and the windows all rolled up. They're speeding up, slowing down, turning, going up and down hills, using their accessories, etc. That's "normal".
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I forget which mag I was browsing at the barbershop yesterday, but the * next to the 52 mpg figure for the Prius city driving said "* constant 20 mph". More realistic figures would probably be attained by stopping and then accelerating to 30-35 mph every 1/4 mile.
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