Hybrids Gas Mileage in the real world...INTERESTING !

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wrote:


Who drives at a constant 20MPH? around here, its 0-50-0 wait for two minutes idling- 50-0 wait for two minutes.... Same thing with the 55 freeway during rush hour. it will vary from 0 to 80 back to 0 again. If you leave any kind of cushion, even just one carlength, so you can kind of just coast when the car stops, then goes again to smooth out your speed. Someone will cut you off and there goes your cushion. There are just too many cars. Get rid of about 15% of the cars on the freeway (ether by carpool, mass transit, or telecommuting) and the traffic would be a lot better. Get the traffic to move at a steady pace, and everyone's fuel economy will improve. Fewer cars on the road PLUS the improved economy of the cars on the road equates to less fuel burned, less money spent on fuel, and less smog.
Hmm, I wonder.. do you think its a "too many cars" thing? or a "too many stupid drivers" thing? Here is SoCal its legal for motorcycles to split traffic. So when traffic gets bad, I split the lanes on my motorcycle. I will be splitting along, then all the sudden, I will pass a car in the middle lane that is doing 45 MPH and everyone is trying to get around them.. after I pass that one "lead slow car" its smooth sailing at 85+. They don't even realize they have two miles of cars backed up behind them.
As for on the street with traffic lights. They are getting smarter, but they are still pretty darn dumb. I have spent a countless collective hours waiting at a vacant traffic signal, waiting for the light to turn green for me. I have sat there for as long as ten minutes before, yeah TEN minutes. without a single car go though the green. I also love it when one light turns green, and you see the next light, about 100 yards up just turn yellow for you. then after coming to a full stop, it turns green, and you see the next light 100 yards up turn yellow and you roll up and stop just in time to go again.
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wrote:

Timing, my man, Timing. ;-(
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I recall a late evening/early morning return from a party stopping for a light out on the edges of College Station, TX.
Waited for a few minutes while giving the gal I was with an earful about how humans should not be subjected to the mindless idiocy of machines. Absolutely no one around.
Finally, the woman said "Why don't you just go through then!"
So I did, and encountered the cop sitting in the dark up ahead waiting for people dumber than stoplights! Got a ticket for running a red light, which I've always felt was really unwarranted. I had actually stopped for it for a period before passing through.
Always felt it should have been a warning, but considering I might have flunked a breathalyser at the time, I suppose I made out as well as could be expected.
SMH
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That is especially frustrating on the motorcycle since most the time I dont have enough steel to trip the lights... I will see the "smart" lights cycle though a few times, skipping me since it doesnt see anyone in that lane.
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Trey wrote:

Yeah, I bicycle commute, so the problem can be even more pronounced.
They say you can try leaning the bike over a bit to help the light recognize you're there. More detectable magnetic field? No, matter, never seems to work.
And not effective if the bicycle is aluminum, or on a motorcycle that you can only lean over so far. Maybe a motorcycle lying on its side might trip the light. Probably best not to try!
SMH
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If you have a kick stand. Just push it down to touch the ground in the detector area. Al

__ Arold "Al" Green
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Arold "Al" Green wrote:

I have tried this with mixed results. Not enough data to tell if it's me or just some coincidence. IOW, it seems to work sometimes and not other times, all at the same street/light.
It's a bother no matter what. ;-)
Jeff

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Usually, you can see where they have cut the ground to put the loops in. Passing right over the middle does nothing. I try to hit just inside the side of the loop at a reasonable speed. that seems to trip most of them.. However. I think the signal polls the loops. so if I pull up on a yellow, I know I trip the signal, but by the time its cycled though the other directions, its almost like it forgot I was there... I just roll the bike back a little and then move forward real quick and it trips it again and it turns green. There are some though, where a 4" think steel plate wont trip them!
As for bicycles, I have the same problem. My old Canondale is all Aluminum, and my new Litespeed is all Ti. My friend has a Carbon Colnago C40, and seems to be able to trip them some how. This summer, I plan on cycle commuting, save gas, AND get some miles in for the race in October.
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Joe wrote:

Ah. You mean like the "city" course that is used to determine the "city" mileage rating?
AP
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No, read it again: Like the real world driving that everybody does every day.
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wrote:

Correct but different cars are optimized for different things. A Hybrid is optomized for mileage but to take advantage of that, you need to drive it as efficiently as possible to gain those benefits.

Perhaps if you cleaned the inside of you windshield every now and then it wouldn't fog up so bad. As for Florida and the deep south, that perhaps is not the best place for a first generation hybrid vehicle.

Normal for them and in these areas, the current hybrid technology mignt not be the correct fit. You have to be willing to give a little to get a little.

Not every vehicle is capable of significant mileage.

Sounds like justifications and excuses to me. Just because people decide to drive wastefully doesn't make the car a bad thing.

No, that is normal for the older tech cars but hey, if people want to continue to drive gas sucking pigs then they had better get used to dishing out a large portion of their income for the privilege.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving



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wrote:

Right, but unfortunately that opportunity doesn't present itself all that much in real world driving. Thus the decreased actual mileage results.

a) I've always cleaned the windshields every weekend, and (b) using the defroster's got nothing to do with dirt. It's got everything to do with humidity.

First, there's a substantial number of people that live in warm climates here in the U.S. There are also a helluva lot of people that use their a/c 24/7/365, even in cooler climates. Running a/c all the time is real world - it's standard equipment, btw.

Nonsense. Companies selling hybrids know all this, but yet they continue to market their cars as across-the-board alternatives. That's simply not true. It's ridiculous that we'll pay an extra whatever thousand dollars for a car that's not going to get the advertised mileage, and we have to drive it in a "special way" to come anywhere near that advertised mileage.

I'll bite - what is "significant mileage"? Is there some universal cutoff point where a mileage figure becomes "significant"? So maybe 29mpg isn't significant but 30mpg is?

Driving wastefully is not the same as driving normally for most people. Like I've already said below, pick any day and go out and see how people drive. Some will drive conservatively, others will drive wastefully, but most will be driving normally.

Newsflash: It's normal for any car.

Very true.
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wrote:

What I read said the cars were long term test vehicles...driven during the summer and into the winter...driven normally as you or I may drive...Nowhere did it indicate they were driven in any abnormal way.. The point of the article was that if the driver needed to use the cars defroster or heater or god forbid the air conditioner (things I know at least I "want" to use when required for both saftey and comfort...the fuel effeciency went down the tubes...
Honestly IF I were in the market for a new vehicle I would consider buying a hybird but It would be stupid financially to buy one purely to save money on fuel...
Bob Griffiths
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Agreed. The savings is nice, but not enough to pay for the increase in cost over the same model with a 100% gas driven drivetrain, unless you are driving a good distance. In fact, I drive about 140 miles per day ... and even at that, the ROI for a hybrid Civic is negligible.
I'm still going to buy a hybrid or other alternative energy vehicle within the next 3 years ... but the thing driving that decision is not saving money ... it's to support the technology that will free us from the grip of the Arabs and improve the environment ...
No offense, but the change to alternative energies is not about $$$, it's about doing the RIGHT thing.
Craig C.
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snipped-for-privacy@metronet.com wrote:

I don't really see it as a "right thing" or "wrong thing" except of course in political terms.
Is it really more "right" burning, say hydrogen, or using electricity via batteries with their own manufacture complications as well as recharge demands?
Seems we're simply exchanging one set of positives/negatives of an energy source with another.
I like "gasahol". My truck seems to like it too. And the idea I might be helping out some American corn grower has its attractions too. But of course its an energy net loss IIRC in the grand scheme of things.
I look forward to the maturation of alternative energies in propelling me about town or keeping me warm during winter, but I don't think there's going to be any great financial or even political liberation coming out of it. Just means some other energy producer instead of Exxon will have their hands in my pocket!
SMH
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wrote:

no, it will still be Exxon. Instead of buying Exxon gas, you be buying Exxon hydrogen. Energy companies will always adapt to keep your money flowing their way.
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Stephen Harding wrote:

That depends on who you choose to believe. Properly produced, ethanol produces a net energy _gain_ of about 1.2:1, and can have other positive environmental benefits as well.
Look here http://www.journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html for more.
The major problem is that gasohol, or e85 if you can get it, requires _anhydrous_ ethanol, and most anhydrous ethanol in the US is made not from corn, but from _coal_.

It'll probably be Exxon. Don't understimate the oil companies. They can see the writing on the wall just as well as anyone else, and they have been for some years now moving into the alternative energy arena.
AP
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snipped-for-privacy@metronet.com wrote:

Give it a few more years and the costs for the hybrid systems will come down. I hope.

Something like one of these? http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero_pages/tzero_home.htm ;-)

Hear, hear!
AP
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TBone wrote:

Indeed, it makes the reader wonder if the test was intentionally rigged to get the absolutely worst mileage out of the hybrids. That would be par for the course with hybrid bashers.

Well, hey. You can't be getting on it _all_ the time. They really do get pretty good mileage when they're cruising, and the engine only has to produce ~20 hp to keep the thing at highway speed.

Nope. My mother's boyfriend was driving, and he had the cruise control set at 85mph the whole time. Real world 47mpg on the highway.
AP
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