If Ford had Cummins?

Page 11 of 13  


No offense intended, but wasn't that term Richard Nixon's to imply widespread support for the Vietnam war? I don't think I would've gone there...I mean with that particular term.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Which is exactly my point, Roy. My experience (and Nate's, though he'll dispute it) indicate that lift pump failure isn't all that common and happens in a random manner just as any part fails. Since we are all basing this on personal experience, its hard to claim its either "unknown", or "known", since all parts fail, and thats also "known".
So..... we're left with the same phenomena that follows any part failure.... transmissions, lift pumps etc. It looks bigger than it really is because of the concentration in one place of those who are affected. All the automakers have had problems with the OD transmissions, but to say all the transmission designs were terribly flawed is erroneous. Same goes for the lift pump, especially in light of evidence that mounting the same pump elsewhere "cured" the problem.
Thats why I asked for a failure rate, instead of personal experience. If you ask me, the steering box is a piece of shit, but thats because I've had three of them in the truck, and am now on my fourth. Does that mean its a "known problem"? Or does it mean I'm a bit harder on my steering, like hopping curbs, flying over snow mounds, etc? Who knows, but I'm not going to claim the steering box is a flawed design just because its been bad on my truck.... the same box has been fitted to millions of Dodge and GM pickups. Whats the failure rate?
--
Max

Join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

if youll stop spinning fast enough to read, youll see that it has already been established as 1 in 5 of those with valid warranties. add to that those with modified trucks and its much higher.
its hard to believe you are STILL trying to dispute this. it goes to show exactly what ive said about you. you will not see beyond your own agenda, facts be damned.
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Nate, this is not meant as an offense to anyone here, or too you but that statement applies to ALL of us at sometime.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

probably so, but since im arguing with max....... :-)
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

LOL
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Main Entry: rampant Pronunciation: 'ram-p&nt also -"pant Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, present participle of ramper 1 a : rearing upon the hind legs with forelegs extended b : standing on one hind foot with one foreleg raised above the other and the head in profile -- used of a heraldic animal 2 a : marked by a menacing wildness, extravagance, or absence of restraint <rampant rumors> b : profusely widespread <rampant weeds> - rampantly adverb [rampant illustration]
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/rampant
Nope, even at 17%, its not a "rampant" problem.
--
Max

Join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

LOL! they say that figures dont lie but liars can figure. :-) leave it to you to once again try to squirm off the hook. doesnt matter max, your lack of integrity in this thread will stand to serve any future reference.
and in YOUR clinton-esque usage of a definition to wiggle your way from the hook on a technicality (obvious to ANYONE what youre doing), i see "profusely widespread". this issue at 1 in 5.88 (and probably much higher) would indeed meet that definition.
in the synonyms listed at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rampant is the word "widespread". would you not consider 1 in 5.88 (are you still DENYING that figure now that tom has said it comes straight from cummins, or are you simply trying to snip your way out of directly responding?) to be "widespread"?
to any reasonable person, this issue is indeed widespread. but, that would require owning your fuck up which you will simply NEVER do and anyone reading this newsgroup for any length of time knows it.
<smooches> :-)
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

As exhibited by your pontification over the past day.

Lack of integrity? You've decided to argue over the definition of "rampant", while failing to address your gross misstatments regarding Deiter Zeitsche, CCA history from bankruptcy, restyling of the trucks vs Cummins availability, and deliberately taking things out of context in order to save face after calling someone an asshole for no apparent reason.

It does not meet that definition, particularly over the warranty period of 100,000 miles. THAT is why DC never did a recall, since the available statistics don't support your claim. This is supported by Mike Simmons statements on the issue.

Main Entry: widespread Pronunciation: 'wId-'spred Function: adjective 1 : widely diffused or prevalent <widespread public interest> 2 : widely extended or spread out <low, widespread hood and fenders -- Time> <a widespread erosion surface -- C. B. Hitchcock>
At 17%, its clear that the lift pumps that worked are still prevalent, at 83%. What you seem to forget is the 100,000 mile warranty period. At present rate, I'll have run through five or six steering boxes in 100,000 miles, and still have the factory lift pump.
"Rampant" steering box failure.... LOL

When its not widespread, there is no reason for me to call it as such. Find actual stats, and I'll consider changing my opinion. Until then, I feel confident that since my opinion mirrors that of Mike Simmons, I'm on solid ground.
--
Max

Join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

no you wont....but thats cool. i still love ya buddy. :-)
......er, id buy you a beer and shoot a game or two of pool with you anyway.
its been fun, till next time. :-)
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

max, i realize that you enjoy the bantering with nate and i don't want to spoil that but from a consumers perspective, i would thnk that 17% could be called rampant. i mean, if 17% of firestones tires blew out, that would be rampant. i would also think that would cause a recall. i am frankly taken by surprise by this failure rate. i never would have guessed that it would be that high. if that number holds up to be accurate......and we may find that it isn't-someone may come up with a figure that is more accurate..............but if it does then i am very dissapointed in dc for not doing more for their customers. and i think that is all that nate is saying. they should have stepped up and taken care of the problem and it dissapoints me that they didn't. that doesn't mean i hate dc. i still think the dodge ram is a great truck and the cummins engine is the best of the bunch. dc is a decent company. i have been treated well by dc and my trucks have been very trouble free. never the less, if the failure rate of the lp's was 17%, that is bad. very bad. can't hide that or talk around it. nate, roy and the others with lp problems have a legitimate complaint. honesty is a big thing with me. dc needs to step up and admit they screwed this up, even if it is three years too late. that would mean a lot to me. but........if i was going to buy a new truck today, it would be a dodge ram with a cummins diesel.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Dguy,
I'm not arguing that the problem doesn't exist, or that Nate and Roy et al don't have a reasonable complaint.
But the "opinion" is that the lp is a "fuck up" of DC. Simply put, its not. Is it a problem? yup. Is it "rampant"? No.
But 17% failure over 100,000 miles? Sure, 17% sounds like a lot, and if it was on a 30,000 mile period, it would be. But its not. Its on a mileage that most vehicles don't see on the first owner, let alone under warranty.
In my opinion, the failure here isn't the lp itself, but the way DC handled the warranty on that lift pump. Yet the big list of DC's failures didn't mention its warranty claim problems or five star farce in some dealerships.
But Nate wants to argue semantics to cover his lack of facts, stats and logic. But even the semantics and definitions don't prove him right.
--
Max

Join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

that may be right on the mark max.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I agree as well. Everybody has problems, it's how you handle them that sets you apart. As I noted somewhere else in this thread, Cummins is taking care of their customers, Dodge is weaseling. That's what bothers me about the whole thing.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

LOL, same old Nate..... ask for proven fact, and get a bunch of spin. I have no agenda, and I've looked at all the facts you've presented in support of your statements. I'll take Mike Simmon's word over yours (he sees more than 7 trucks a week, let alone the 7 you've owned in a year or more) on the lift pump issue. As such, while it is an issue (as I said), its not a "rampant" problem.
Now, call me an asshole, and get it over with.
--
Max

Join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Actually, that info. came right from Cummins. Megan Henry, who quoted the 17% number, is one of those Six Sigma "black belt" certified people working in the midrange products division of Cummins (midrange builds the ISB's).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

even better, but i have NO doubt that max will continue to squirm off the hook because he hasnt the integrity to own his mistake.
i know you dont like getting involved in the petty shit and i wont ask you to, but i would like to know.....in your opinion was the issue "rampant" in the reasonable usage of the word rampant?
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

How about a compromise and say a whole friggin' bunch?
Roy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

that works, lol.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Not when it's between two people I have respect for, no... :)

B U T . . .

I would have to say... that would depend on what your definition of the word "was".... was.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.