If Ford had Cummins?

ok, 1 in 5.88........ill go with that. :-)

.....course, i think we'll be doing good to get max to own up to 1 in 1000.

even better, but i have NO doubt that max will continue to squirm off the hook because he hasnt the integrity to own his mistake.

i know you dont like getting involved in the petty shit and i wont ask you to, but i would like to know.....in your opinion was the issue "rampant" in the reasonable usage of the word rampant?

LOL! they say that figures dont lie but liars can figure. :-) leave it to you to once again try to squirm off the hook. doesnt matter max, your lack of integrity in this thread will stand to serve any future reference.

and in YOUR clinton-esque usage of a definition to wiggle your way from the hook on a technicality (obvious to ANYONE what youre doing), i see "profusely widespread". this issue at 1 in 5.88 (and probably much higher) would indeed meet that definition.

in the synonyms listed at

is the word "widespread". would you not consider 1 in 5.88 (are you still DENYING that figure now that tom has said it comes straight from cummins, or are you simply trying to snip your way out of directly responding?) to be "widespread"?

to any reasonable person, this issue is indeed widespread. but, that would require owning your f*ck up which you will simply NEVER do and anyone reading this newsgroup for any length of time knows it.

:-)

max, i realize that you enjoy the bantering with nate and i don't want to spoil that but from a consumers perspective, i would thnk that 17% could be called rampant. i mean, if 17% of firestones tires blew out, that would be rampant. i would also think that would cause a recall. i am frankly taken by surprise by this failure rate. i never would have guessed that it would be that high. if that number holds up to be accurate......and we may find that it isn't-someone may come up with a figure that is more accurate..............but if it does then i am very dissapointed in dc for not doing more for their customers. and i think that is all that nate is saying. they should have stepped up and taken care of the problem and it dissapoints me that they didn't. that doesn't mean i hate dc. i still think the dodge ram is a great truck and the cummins engine is the best of the bunch. dc is a decent company. i have been treated well by dc and my trucks have been very trouble free. never the less, if the failure rate of the lp's was

17%, that is bad. very bad. can't hide that or talk around it. nate, roy and the others with lp problems have a legitimate complaint. honesty is a big thing with me. dc needs to step up and admit they screwed this up, even if it is three years too late. that would mean a lot to me. but........if i was going to buy a new truck today, it would be a dodge ram with a cummins diesel.

How about a compromise and say a whole friggin' bunch?

Roy

Not when it's between two people I have respect for, no... :)

B U T . . .

I would have to say... that would depend on what your definition of the word "was".... was.

The front axle on mine is rated at 5200 lbs, the engine is only 1100 lbs. Plenty of room for a plow. Tires would be more of a concern due to weight ratings.

Roy, agreed. My point was not that there was no problem; its clear there is a problem, and I never stated otherwise, despite the misinterpretation of some. Calling it "rampant"... well, its just not so.

As to the sources, my point is that no one actually publishes a reliable failure rate, except NHTSA, if they take enough of an interest AND its a safety issue. Thus, again, there is a problem with calling something "rampant" when the facts indicate otherwise.

What bothers me about the stats we do have is that they are intentionally vague. Something that is lost on at least one person here. 17% failure rate over the warranty period means its over 100,000 miles. I don't know about you, but having less that 1 in 5 fail in 100,000 miles isn't terrible. I'd like to know what the failure rate of a mechanical pump on the small block mopars would be over 100,000 miles. I can personally attest to installing at least one on my old Dart in the 100,000 I've driven it. I can't remember how many we've put on the 63 in its 200,000+ miles. I'd bet its more than three.

All of this is lost on someone like "joe sixpack", because he's only interested in his truck, not the actual facts over thousands of trucks.

As to whose fault is was... well, thats anyone's guess. Clearly, the claim that Cummins trucks are selling the brand, while at the same time failing at "rampant" rates, is some sort of conflicting conclusion.

But I've come to expect this.

As exhibited by your pontification over the past day.

Lack of integrity? You've decided to argue over the definition of "rampant", while failing to address your gross misstatments regarding Deiter Zeitsche, CCA history from bankruptcy, restyling of the trucks vs Cummins availability, and deliberately taking things out of context in order to save face after calling someone an asshole for no apparent reason.

It does not meet that definition, particularly over the warranty period of

100,000 miles. THAT is why DC never did a recall, since the available statistics don't support your claim. This is supported by Mike Simmons statements on the issue.

Main Entry: wide·spread Pronunciation: 'wId-'spred Function: adjective 1 : widely diffused or prevalent 2 : widely extended or spread out

At 17%, its clear that the lift pumps that worked are still prevalent, at

83%. What you seem to forget is the 100,000 mile warranty period. At present rate, I'll have run through five or six steering boxes in 100,000 miles, and still have the factory lift pump.

"Rampant" steering box failure.... LOL

When its not widespread, there is no reason for me to call it as such. Find actual stats, and I'll consider changing my opinion. Until then, I feel confident that since my opinion mirrors that of Mike Simmons, I'm on solid ground.

ok, im not being argumentative here. please explain that, as tires are unsprung weight.

ive never weighed my truck to see what is actually getting to the front end, but it does create some question due to the paper in my truck about slide in campers. it doesnt concern me to much since since my trailer has over 1000 pounds of tongue weight when loaded which should lighten the front end of the truck at least a little, but i would like to build a large basket off my winch bumper to hold the generator for my camper.....but i dont know if that would push the front axle rating or not. my generator is nearly 200 pounds, plus the weight of the basket to secure it (another 100 pounds or so).

Dguy,

I'm not arguing that the problem doesn't exist, or that Nate and Roy et al don't have a reasonable complaint.

But the "opinion" is that the lp is a "f*ck up" of DC. Simply put, its not. Is it a problem? yup. Is it "rampant"? No.

But 17% failure over 100,000 miles? Sure, 17% sounds like a lot, and if it was on a 30,000 mile period, it would be. But its not. Its on a mileage that most vehicles don't see on the first owner, let alone under warranty.

In my opinion, the failure here isn't the lp itself, but the way DC handled the warranty on that lift pump. Yet the big list of DC's failures didn't mention its warranty claim problems or five star farce in some dealerships.

But Nate wants to argue semantics to cover his lack of facts, stats and logic. But even the semantics and definitions don't prove him right.

no you wont....but thats cool. i still love ya buddy. :-)

......er, id buy you a beer and shoot a game or two of pool with you anyway.

its been fun, till next time. :-)

Well, looking at the '07 numbers (because that's all I have handy), yes, the axle is rated at 5200lbs. The curb weight on the front axle is a little over 4,400lbs.

A 9ft. plow setup goes a little under 900lbs. (Meyer shows 890lbs. for their

9' diamond edge model). The front axle's overloaded, and you haven't even gotten in the truck yet.

No I didn't read the last 56 post of it..............

Mine. 98.5 QC 2500 24valve 5spd. stock except for a mechanical fuel pressure guage. I bought the truck with 143,000kms on it, Changed the lift pump at about 150,000. FP went from a soild 15psi at lide to 5psi when I swapped it out. Now 160,000kms.........I'm getting a P0216 code...............nice.

Do I understand correctly? You changed out a LP that was at the time showing

15psi. at idle ? If so why?

that works, lol.

i hadn't thought of that but that is a good point.

another good point max. it would be helpful in the discussion to have a fair comparison.

that may be right on the mark max.

I don't think that they get involved unless it is a safty issue.

What would be helpful is a build number. Also if 17% is a intentionally vague number... it could well be beyond 20%. It has been my experience that when numbers are vague, things are usually much worse.

Roy

I'd