OT- a deal that shouldn't be passed up

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Christianity is what it is Miles. While there may be some variation in the formalities and customs, the way others should be treated pretty much remains the same
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If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving



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Sez who? You? John?
Guess what ,Tom, the Bible says that non-Christians have no authority over Christians, nada, none. In fact, we are told to avoid them when it comes to doctrines and beliefs lest they corrupt the faith. This also includes those that belong to already corrupted sects.
So, until you give proof you are a Christian, you might as well shut up. . . . but then, your actions aren't how a Christian would correct another believer either. . . .oops.
Budd
TBone wrote:

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TBone wrote:

How ones lives their lives, what they see as humerous etc is all based on that persons beliefs and noone elses. The way you paint it Christians have little individuality which is just absurd and shows that you haven't a clue!
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That is not what I said Miles and you know it, regardless of your spin. The point is Miles, that if someone makes the claim to be a Christian like someone we know, then they should hold up to it. I don't here you making that claim and you don't see me doing it either. Either way, it is not important and this thread has turned into the same crap that so many others have and it is to close to Christmas to be bothered with childish crap like this so Merry Christmas to you and yours Miles, I'm done with this one.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"miles" < snipped-for-privacy@nopers.com> wrote in message
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TBone wrote:

Unlike you, Tom, I'm not afraid of my name being said in public forum. It's "Budd Cochran" in case you forgot.
Which brings up a question for both you and John . . why is it you, Tom, get all ticked off if you get dressed down in public forum for a screw-up and yet you and John both want to dress me down for my beliefs in public forum? Is it a need for either of you do demonstrate you have gonads in public? Do you get some thrill from it?
Do either of you understand the poor manners (Hey, Tom, it's also called "CLASS") and lack of respect for another Human Being it shows?

"By their fruits ye shall know them." You have not shown yourself to be a good fruit. "Every tree that beareth not good fruit will be cut down and thrown in the fire."

Now that YOU AND JOHN turned it into crap, you mean. Take responsibility for your actions . . your rotten fruit, as it were, Tom.
Budd
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TBone wrote:

They do. They hold up to it in THEIR own way, not yours. And please, don't say it's the Bible that decides. Different people live their lives through the Bible in different manners. There is no single one way called Christianity as you so imply.
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Miles,
It's been my experience that some people, especially non-believers, have a difficult time understanding that Christian beliefs are a personal, individual relationship that does not change your basic personality unless it is one so terrible it has to change. God doesn't want puppets, He wants His Children.
I'm sitting here next to my brother and while he and I attend the same church, he is still the brother I grew up with. He is not quite the same as I am, yet not a lot different. My wife is a quieter Christian lady, less "aggressive" but otoh, don't try to force your beliefs on her . . . . Not at all wise. ;)
SO, someone has a problem with me not fitting their ideal of what a Christian should be . .oh, well.
Merry Christmas, friend.
Budd
miles wrote:

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John Kunkel wrote:

Yes, they are, it's called the Bible. To reject the Bible is to reject the proof, so you refuse Truth.
Btw, I was commenting on my saying the post was a joke as the truth he rejected, John, not my beliefs.

No, you profess to not follow anything . . .must be hard to know where you're headed . . .

The Bible is also laced with verses that say you will burn in Hell forever, you are a sinner, and that you are not a person that I have to take any instruction from (in fact, it says to drive the false teachers from the city).

Nope. It was a joke based on a social structure that allowed an offer of cows and goats for a contract marriage. However, only you liberals are the ones offended it seems. Figures.

According to whom? You? A NON-BELIEVER!?!?!?!?!
ROTFLMBO!!!!!

No, it's also in the book you reject until you think it fits your liberal agenda.

Then you are hypocrite because you only accept the Bible WHEN IT SUITS YOUR LIBERAL PURPOSE.
At least I accepted the verses that told me I was going to Hell if I didn't accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior.
Budd
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would
all,
what
valid
Sorry Budd, but saying someone is worth less than what you said they were is not a joke, it is a judgement.

No, I seem to have to defend everything but with the political climate in this group...

What does what I do have to do with you? I don't claim to be a the great God fearing person that you do.

And you think what you said about Ms Clinton (not the initial offer but what YOU said she was worth) was not a judgment?!?!? When you put yourself on a pedestal, then expect to be judged.

first
that
left
and
I have no idea but it isn't me. Do I think that the current president is an idiot that really screwed up, yes. But I also voted for Reagan and Bush senior (the first time) and if this president would have done anything worth a damn in his first term, I probably would have voted for him as well. As for a simple joke, that is complete bullshit. If all you would have said was what the person origionally offered for her hand, that would have been funny and if you would have asked for change there, it probably still would have been funny but you went way beyond that and you know it.

Unlike you Budd, I don't do that. The current administration is a screwup, just like Carter was but I don't say the damn right or damn conservatives every time I get mad at something like you do with the left.

Incorrect.
Time to do a little self advice following here Budd.

PKB, Budd. If it is ok for you to say what you want about anyone you want to then the same goes for me and everyone else for that matter. The problem here Budd is doing this shows a complete lack of class. While it is not my athority to say what is and is not funny in the world, this is a public forum and if I feel like posting an opinion to something somebody writes here, I have every right to do just that. If you don't like it, don't read it.

That is not always true but just like you feel the need to post these attacks (and that is exactly what it was) then expect a response to them sometimes.
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TBone wrote:

To find excuses to be allowed to do something is justification, to find valid reasons is defense. You give only excuses. . . .and whines.

No, Tom, it's what does it have to do with you? Answer; everything. You are so quick to correct others but even quicker to find excuses for your actions. Straighten yourself out before you chastise others.

Look who's talking. You have yet to show any evidence of being Christian, yet you elevate yourself to a pedstal over all Christians and seek to judge me.
Did you know that is the same sin Lucifer commited?

Ah, yes, the highly selecive liberal memory.

Since you have been so incredibly anti-conservative, you'll understand if I laugh my head off in derision at this unprovable claim.

Well, like I said, and you proved the fact, you rejected the truth.
Thank you for cutting your own credibility to shreds.

No, Tom, I was being myself. It's who I am. Denny, for one, will tell you I'm a bit zany in person and I have the same personality here.
Do you?

Yes you do, but to cut and paste would waste too much bandwidth. But you would deny it even if I did. . . you have in the past.

Too bad you don't follow your own advice as well about following the Bible since you want to try and force me into a stereotypical mold based on some verses taken out of context . . . the Bible says in Romans that no one is worthy of Heaven, all are sinners and without Jesus you will go to Hell, John 1:1 says that Jesus is God, The Gospels confirm He was the sacrifice for our Sins . . .or did you rip those parts out of your Bible?

<LOL>
HUH??? It's never stopped you from calling people names has it? Tom, you are the prime example of someone that degrades others without conscience, without moral value.

Tom, take these damnable references to "class" and shove them. Who decides the qualifications to be in that "class"?? You? Then I am praising God that I AM NOT IN YOUR "CLASS".
Putting people in classes is bigotous, hateful, illegal in this country, and just plain wrong.
Heck, I don't meet the qualifications anyhow, I'm poor white trailer trash, remember (based on some of your comments about poor people, trailer dwelling and such)? Bigot.
Now, if you mean I don't meet some etherial social standard of yours, good. It means I'm still a gentleman of the old school which means you are told what you needed to hear, not what you want to hear. It means you'll always get the truth even if it hurts. It means I'll open doors for ladies and protect children. It means that if you need blood, I'll offer mine even if you are my worst enemy.
Because, Tom, that is being Christian. Your "class" crap doesn't apply here, as you've demonstrated so many times withn your name calling and profanity.

Finally, you got something right. Not spelling, just your position.

And I have the right to tell you to stuff your opinion and to defend (yes, DEFEND) myself against your claims I'm a liar, and not a Christian ( based on your references to out-of-context verses).

Tom, I know it won't do any good to tell you to not read or reply if you don't like a post, but you will, so I won't say it. You did have the same option, you know.

comments on one of your politically motivated clap-trap posts?
Talk about someone that can't follow their . . .( sarcasm mode at Warp Factor 2000) oh, that's right, it applies only to others, not you. You're above such imperfection.
( Back to sub-sarcasm mode)
Budd
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Well, let's see, the qability to read makes me an "expert". An avowed Christian wouldn't knowingly violate the mandates set forth in the Bible so let's compare some Biblical writings with your obvious denigration of Chelsea Clinton:
Matthew 7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
..................................................
Luke 6:40
A disciple, when he is fully trained, will be like his teacher. (Can you imagine JC making jest of another?)
...........................................
Psalm 15:
He whose walk is blameless and who does what is righteous, who speaks the truth from his heart and has no slander on his tongue, who does his neighbor no wrong and casts no slur on his fellow man,
Get that Budd? A righteous person "casts no slander on his fellow man".
Budd Cochran, another in a long line of Bible-thumping hypocrites.
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John Kunkel wrote:

Everyone has their own beliefs and views. Funny thing about people. No two are alike. For you to lump all Christians into a single group and say they are not being Christian is just absurd. It's why we have so many factions of religions all saying the others are wrong. Even within a particular sect. And now you as an Athiest come along to tell how a Christian is supposed to behave? lol
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If an individual claims to adhere to a religion (Christianity) and the basis of that religion is set forth in a publication (the Bible) and an individual violates the premise therein, he is by definition not adhering to his own beliefs. Pointing out this simple fact, in no way, constitutes "telling a Christian how he is supposed to behave"; the Bible tells a Christian how he is supposed to behave.
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John Kunkel wrote:

And yetyou miss the other parts of what "being Christian" consist of...by choice, apparently.

Yes, but you chose to ignore my point, that you, an avowed atheist, have no authority to judge me from a book you disbelieve and reject. If you don't like the Bible and the fact it tells you that you are going to Hell, then why do you pick parts of it out? Just because it suits your purpose? How liberal of you, John . . .wrong, but liberal.
As the Bible says, you can tell me all you want how terrible a Christian you percieve me to be, but until you become a Christian, you have no authority to teach ANYONE from the Bible.
Budd
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Enlighten me. Apparently, the "other parts" consist of proclaiming one's Christianity on forums.

Picking those parts of the Bible that suit you is so Christian. The "L" word again. How Christian of you.

"Teaching" isn't my goal, pointing out hypocrisy is and one need not join the mob to do that.
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John Kunkel wrote:

Oh, I am to deny my faith . . hide it under a bushel as it says in Matthew? Read the rest of the chapter, John.
I decided a long time a go that if being Christian were declared illegal I wanted to be thge first one arrested, tried and convicted.

Look again, John. Mine are in context and are supported by the Bible (a believer is authorized to teach unbelievers from the Scriptures, you are not.)

believe in. I would not teach from Darvin's book of lies, so why do you use the Bible?
Budd
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Show any violation of context in the Biblical passages I posted. You keep using the word "teaching"; pointing out hypocrisy isn't "teaching from the Scriptures". Try a new line.
Suppose I see an avowed Christian banging his next door neighbor's wife in full view of dozens of people in a public park. Is it "teaching" to point out that he is in violation of the sixth and ninth commandment? Is pointing out the obvious violation "passing judgement"? "Passing judgement" would be condemning the behavior, not pointing it out.
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John Kunkel wrote:

If you had simply called me a hypocrite, that would have been pointing percieved hypocrisy.
When you went to the Bible and decided to assume an authority you did not have, you made it teaching.

First thing right off the bat, a true believing Christian, unless decieved by Satan ( we are still Human) would not commit breaches of those Commandments.
Secondly, since you are an athiest, what does it matter to you what anyone of any other belief does?
However, since a sexual act in public would be a violation of probably several PUBLIC laws, you could dial 911 and put it in the hands of those in authority, the cops.
Budd
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Obviously, the word "teach" has a different meaning for you. To teach is to educate, since you are already a self-proffessed expert on the Bible my quotes don't amount to teaching. If I quoted the first sentence of Moby Dick and you had already read it would that be "teaching"? No, that would be quoting with no intent to increase one's knowledge.

So, only non-Christians commit adultery? In truth, the majority of those who do it would undoubtedly describe themselves as Christians but would rationalize their behavior in some way.
Enough of this circular rhetoric, let's cut to Le' Chase. Kindly answer the following questions for me and the others on the forum:
1)Do you believe your statement in the original post.... "I don't think she could be worth more than a couple pigs and a rat, but only if they offer change back.".. is a denigrating statement? Yes/no.
If you don't believe the statement is denigrating to Ms. Clinton, explain why not. If you acknowledge the statement is demeaning, explain why such behavior is acceptable for an avowed Christian.
2)Why do you believe this sentence from Psalm 15 doesn't apply to your statement about Ms. Clinton?
"He whose walk is blameless and who does what is righteous, who speaks the truth from his heart and has no slander on his tongue, who does his neighbor no wrong."
Do you believe your statement wasn't slanderous and that that slander didn't do your neighbor wrong? Yes/no.
If you believe the statemant doesn't fall under the definition of slander explain why. If you acknowledge that the statement is slanderous, explain why Psalm 15 doesn't accurately describe the slanderous action as unrighteous. Don't give me the old "the Bible must be taken as a whole" bullshit, you have quoted individual verses quite often in this thread. And don't try the old "an atheist has no authority to quote the Bible" bullshit either, try a straight answer without the usual subterfuge.
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John Kunkel wrote:

I have never claimed expertise on the Scriptures. I don't even have that many memorized. But I know where to find experts and you are not one of them.

"Call me Ishmael." Quoting from a universally recognized work of fiction s quoting. Quoting from the religious book of a group that know it is not fiction is teaching, especially when seek correct someone . . . but you still don't have the authority to do so.

Read it again since you bragged about that developed skill then tell me where I said all Christians.
"There are many that draw nigh with the mouth but their hearts are far from me" The words of Jesus as recorded by Matthew, the Tax Collector
Not all that claim to be Christians are, hence I said "TRUE CHRISTIANS".

Why? Who are you that I should jump when you holler frog?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Have you stopped beating your dog?

Have you the authority of God to question me? No.

And you're not doing me wrong, hypocrite?

Is it your avowed purpose in life to degrade Christians?

Do you think you are worthy of any consideration at all when your sole intent has been to attack, and destroy a single indvidual in this group simply because his avowed beliefs don't fit into some little niche that you think all who go by the name Christian should be stuffed into and then left to die, bigoted hypocrite?
John, your hatred for me and my beliefs is evident to all now. I forgive you.
Happy holidays
Budd
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