OT: E85

Ok here is one for all the experts in here, what would happen if you (attempted) to run E85 in a NON flex-fuel, non-E85 capable vehicle?

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I'll guess that your service engine soon light would come on and you'll have hesitation/surging when driving. It may be a little hard to start cold too. How's that for some wild ass guessing
Denny
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Would it be the same if I ran blended wabbit? HEHE

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If you "could" get it to run on rabbit, it'd just keep going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going............
Denny

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The computer will think it's running lean. Other than that it may or may not run normal depending on 1) the computer and 2) the injectors.
Students in my class that burn gas (I have mostly studied bio-diesel, but have done some research on e85), don't notice anything other than a check engine light.
I do NOT know the results of long term use, but short term use, from what I have witnessed, seems fairly transparent.
BTW, there are inexpensive kits you can buy that "allow" your vehicle to burn E85. The ones I have read about consist of a computer module that forces the injectors to inject more fuel.
Here's a website that a fellow student referred me to:
http://e85vehicles.com/converting-e85.htm
Craig C.
Craig C.
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Thanks Craig, I just read through that site and found something extremely interesting. According to the author and that of others on the forum, by converting to E85, many, hell most, report a DECREASE in fuel economy. I find that interesting considering most of the new flex fuel vehicles get much better economy. Must be something with the conversion. Oh well, not worth it.
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I would imagine its because the conventional gasoline engine isn't set up to correctly harness the energy in the alcohol. as has been my contention on cng/propane conversions and other alternative fuels. the engine has to be built from the crank up to run on the fuel if you want to see the power and economy the fuel has the potential to deliver.
this of course is my opinion, I have no engineering degree or engineering credentials to support my opinion.
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Alcohol has great octane, much less BTU's. E-85 loses about 26% economy compared to straight gasoline. If it wasn't so heavily subsidized instead of taxed you'd never even consider it.
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A vehicle designed to run on gasoline will indeed lose power and fuel economy when ran with E85. However, an engine designed to take advantage of that high octane rating can indeed match the power and fuel economy of the average gas-motor, if not exceed it.
Saab has an engine that's calibrated to take advantage of the higher octane rating of E85 and in fact, makes more power with it than gasoline.
~jp
BigIronRam wrote:

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Jon R. Pickens wrote:

If only GM didn't own them ...
Actually, my ex had a 2000 Saab 9-3. Ran great! Transmission was a POS, but other than that I enjoyed driving it.
I especially enjoyed watching it drive away the last time I saw it ... with her in it.
:-) Craig C.
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It wasn't headed over a cliff, was it?
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BigIronRam wrote:

Unfortunately not.
Two actions are always associated with North Dallas women:
1) S I G H <head shaking> 2) Cha-Ching
Not necessarily in that order.
:-) Craig C.
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Since my truck went into semi-permanent "project" status, I had to get another car. I went with a 2000 9-3 as well. I dig the car a lot. Was hers an automatic??? I hope so. I specifically sought out a 5-speed to avoid having to rebuild an auto in the near future.
~jp
Craig C. wrote:

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I'd like to see some information on that, got a link? Compression ratio can be raised to extreme levels (around 14:1) on engines run exclusively on Alcohol but then they're not flex fuel anymore. The fuel economy claim is also interesting. I know on Alcohol converted carbureted engines use HUGE jets compared to gasoline engines. It would be interesting to see what technology has come up with recently.
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You got that right... it kind of irks me when I hear the arguments for or against E-85. I think treating it as an alternate fuel for existing engines is fine, but if the distribution for it ever got ramped up, dedicated engines made to use E-85 only would really be better. I think over time the idea *could* catch on, just MHO... You can't run gas in a diesel yet plenty of folks still drive 'em.
As you said, an engine built to use E-85 only could make use of a higher compression ratio that would more than compensate for the lower energy content (BTUs / gallon) of ethanol.
Here's one link about the Saab 'variable compression ratio' motor...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_Variable_Compression_engine
Also check this link out...it jumps to the B205 which takes advantage of the higher octane of the E-85.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioPower#B205
You're right about the need for bigger jetting in carbed applications, but I think a MPFI setup with injectors that can handle the task would eliminate any tuning issues, as evidenced by the latest GM flex-fuel vehicles.
~jp
BigIronRam wrote:

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