OT<<HybridS>>

People are interested in mpg for one reason. To save money. But if the higher mpg cars cost more than the gas savings then its simply not economical no matter how high the mpg of they hybrid. So far in almost all cases a 100% gas economy car is a better deal if the reason for buying is to save money. Hybrids don't save money.

Roy, though I think that hybrids are a great idea, miles does have a point. My wife is thinking about a Toyota Highlander Hybrid, but I have gotten her to look at the Yaris also. They have a little 4 door sedan that is actually pretty nice looking, rather roomy and peppy too. As I recall it gets about 45 - 50 mpg and was only like 14k fully loaded.

I think the only tree Roy is gonna hug is the one the wabbit is hanging in, Larry...

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Another difference to me would be whether you finance it.. I'd be more inclined to go hybrid if I wasn't paying cash for it..

The payment difference on the more expensive car should be less than the fuel savings if the interest rate is decent...

I'm a firm believer that cash on hand is nice, but cash FLOW is what decides how you live...

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Some people ... not all people.

They save some money depending on the manufacturer (cost of hybrid option varies) and how it is driven. However, (dare I open this can of worms?), MANY (forward thinking) people that purchase hybrids do so because it saves $$ on fuel. Less fuel is burned resulting in lower air/water pollution.

This helps with *hidden* costs that you have not factored in like cleaning the water and air (tax dollars) that have been polluted by combustion engines. Another hidden cost is doctor visits (insurance/out-of-pocket) for allergies or respiratory illness (including cancer) irritated or *caused* by particulate matter in the air stirred up or created by combustion engines. These hidden costs increase every year.

Also, hybrids require less maintenance. The engine doesn't run all of the time. This doubles sometimes triples the savings over the life of the vehicle. Fewer oil changes, filter (air/fuel/oil). Tires on hybrids are typically much smaller and cheaper than its regular full combustion counterpart.

To save money AND the environment, in order: walk or bike, public transit, all electric vehicles, hybrids.

Craig C.

I looked at them. I'm leaning toward Toyota Camry 'cause they have been doing it for quite some time. They usually put out a very good product, they are a fairly decent size and they do real well if you have the misfortune to get involved in a accident.

you make very valid points With the cars I've owned in the past I did more than my share of dirtying thing's up. Hell, on a couple of them I had to pay the friggin' gas guzzler tax.

Bro, it would take a chain fall to lift that fat assed rabbit of the ground

Roy

Not sure I follow your logic there. If a car costs 7,000 more to get the hybrid version then you'll pay that much more plus the increased interest over the life of the loan. Your savings in gas over that time period will almost certainly not cover the increased cost whether paid monthly or in a lump sum.

Back to my Honda Civic example!

Gas Civic DX for $16000 @ 5%/5 years = $302/month Hybrid Civic for $23000 % 5%/5 years = $434/month

Drive 20000 miles/year = 1667 miles/month

1667/30mpg Gas * $3/gallon = $167/month 1667/50mpg Hybrid * $3/gallon = $100

Gas cost difference $67/month Loan difference = $132/month

No way to get there from here! Can't generate free money. lol

True, some want to be environmentally cleaner. But most don't have the luxury of extra money sitting around to afford a hybrid for that reason.

The SUV Hybrids are around a $4500/difference and thus break even in gas savings over a 3-5 year period. But the Civic, Prius and Camry won't come close.

Less fuel burned does not in itself equate to lower emissions. Look at the horrible emissions of motorcycles...averaging many times the pollution of typical cars yet getting 40-70mpg.

Most people do not have the extra money to spend on a car for the purpose of cutting pollution. Savings in the wallet has got to be the driving force in order to get the masses to widely purchase hybrids. They sold well in their first few years but thats slowed. Honda is dropping the Civic Hybrid for the lack of demand.

That is not a cost directly born by the consumer in their wallets. If the government were to give a large tax rebate for purchasers of hybrids then it could help.

True but thats across the board and not recognized on a per individual basis. A person can't cut their costs of Dr's bills by purchasing a hybrid. Only when almost everyone does so.

Electric motors wear out as well. They are far from maintenance free. Only time will tell what the expenses of a hybrid are.

Tires are the same size on the Civic, Highlander and Escape. Which vehicles are you referring to when you say typically?

But a 1200 Sporster would be economical and you can ride it year round down there. Mine Gets 50 mpg.

beekeep

But they do help not putting as much money in the ragheads pockets.

beekeep

A real retired Yankee would go down there and build a car that ran on dead palm fronds!

beekeep

Those cars are already around sort of. Biodiesel is often made from palm oil, but that's made from the fruit, not the fronds. It's becoming a problem in the tropical rain-forests. The rain-forests are being cleared to make room for oil producing palm plantations. For this reason some consider biodiesel worse than fossil fuels. Interesting article here:

Note: I make biodiesel from /waste/ vegetable oil that has already been used in restaurant fryers and discarded. I don't use palm oil.

Perhaps but doubtful. Oil companies have heavy investments in most alternative energy R&D and production.

Watch out Roy, INCOMMING!!!!!!!

FMB (North Mexico)

I've never heard that before. I'm not saying I don't beleive you, but it just doesn't sound right to me. Are 2-cycle motorcycles included in this average?

It's very true. Motorcycles don't have the emission requirements that cars must adhere to. A typical motorcycle pollutes far more than an average car. Heck, even a lawnmower does. 2-cycles pollute even worse and are why their sales are now outlawed in some states. They're not included in most studies I've seen because they are generally not made for street use.

I have heard figures of 10-20 times more pollution from a motorcycle but looking at a few reports suggest its closer to 2-3 times. I'll have to see if I can find a few studies from reputable sources.

I'd like to see the figures. I always thought a well-tuned motorcycle was very clean. I guess I was wrong about that.