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I have to disagree with this last statement, about being against something meaning they are going to stop it. I don't see that as a completely true statement. Being against something mean that you don't like it or agree with it, but that does not necessarily go hand in hand with stopping it. It could be that they are against it only because of the way it ias being handled and will change things to fit their needs/political views but leaving the same basic "thing" in place.
The only ones that can truly change and stop anything is the American public and that would be accomplished by not voting in all the De De De's that keep getting in. I think that it's time America wake up, get out of the political part mind set and vote for the best over all person, party loyalties be damned. But this is just my two cents.
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You misunderstood what I said. I purposly left this open ended because it is not always the action that would be stopped, but sometimes the way the action is being done.

I agree and the war is an excellent example. While I'm sure that many are against this invalid war itself, most intelligent Americans realize that we cannot simply end it, even though that might be what they want to do. Instead, it has to be handled differently and some sort of time table needs to be put in place otherwise the new government over there can ride on out coat tails forever.

I agree and have said this many times. If the people in place are not doing the job they need to be replaced but those that follow the party lines on both sides will never allow that to happen.
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says...

Well when you said "We had ours a couple of nights ago" it kinda inferred...

Lmao, oh I know that was pretty cruel wasn't it.
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Cruel??? I'm shattered. <BFG>
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Unlike the Dems who parade out their candidates for every bat mitzvah and dog castration they can weasel an invitation to.
Steve
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Roy wrote:

The Dems show was certainly a Gong show and I expect the Reps to be the same. Nobody on either side seems to stand for anything. Nobody has stepped up as a leader. Just a bunch of say anything for a vote politicians. Gonna be a lousy election.
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Yup.
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Roy wrote:

Immigration reform is a huge issue this election. Both sides seem to want a repeat of the 1986 reform that gave millions amnesty. Only this time around its to an even larger scale. Still no enforcement. They haven't said what they will do to those that do not comply with this latest bill nor even the funding for such enforcement. They haven't said what they will do to those that came here after Jan. 1st 2007. There will still be a stream and nothing done.
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And are you willing to pay for this enforcement? I am asking this because the cost will come in far more ways than just increased taxes. I don't think that you are but it does sound PC to say that you want it stopped.
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TBone wrote:

Yes because it will be cheaper than granting amnesty and then having to pay out millions in social welfare to illegals. They will drain our healthcare, drain our food stamp program and drain our subsidized house programs etc. That will cost far more than stopping the flow. Failure to enforce the laws already on the books has already cost us plenty.
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LOL, ya really think so? If you want to stop that, then change the laws allowing illegals to make use of these programs and put the money into them to allow them to be properly regulated.

They are already doing that and mainly due to cuts in these programs that reduce the staffing of these programs needed to prevent such abuses. Unfortunately, this is a bi-partisan failure here.

The problem is that if these laws were actually enforced, the wages for the jobs that many of these people do will go up because most Americans simply cannot afford to work for minimum wage and raising prices will not work to cover it. Instead, the rich would have to cut their own salaries a little and we both know that is a sin against God to people like you.
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If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving



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TBone wrote:

I'd love to stop welfare from going to illegals. Trouble is the Dems won't hear anything of the sort.

Somewhat bi-partisan. The Reps want amnesty too. However, the Reps have been against welfare for illegals. The Dems fully and publicly support free healthcare, free food, free housing and free school for illegals. In most states illegals from another country can obtain instate college tuition while legal Americans from another state can not. Thats the liberal mentality giving American money away to illegals foreigners.

Thats a liberal myth. Read up on the economic effects of importing cheap labor. Your theories hold true only for the short term and not the long term. It drags down others wages with it. Learn why.
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More bullshit and spin. The Reps had the congress for more than 10 years and the Presidency for 7 so why wasn't anything done about it then? Blaming the Dems for all of the faults of the world really just makes you sound ignorant.

Bullshit, or is this another one of those things that they claim to stand for and yet do nothing about. Yea, you got some real leadership there.

Really??? Lets see some gubberment sites backing this up and not the right wing crap that you like to read. I am sure that there are some extreem lefts that want that crap but I really doubt that the entire party feels that way. You keep saying that I'm a liberal and I don't want or believe in that.

Again, lets see some sites to back this up and "most states" would have to include some red ones as well so once again, this can't be a Dem thing.

LOL, nope!

I know that it does which is exactly what people like you want, cheap labor so that you can put more money in your pocket. Notice that the Reps are quick to grant amnesty but don't want to give them anything else. Why do you think that is? Perhaps because they get to keep the cheap labor (and make them work) at little to no cost to the rich who own them (the congressmen). The fact that it also draws down the cost of labor above this is even a further benefit and we both know that is drawdown has little to no effect on the ones running the companies as they are the ones that set the rates.
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TBone wrote:

I never blamed the Dems for all the worlds problems. But you certainly have blamed the Reps. I have stated to you time and again it's both parties. Now watch, your reply will be to bash the Reps and praise the Dems.

Not so. I am against importing of cheap labor. Care to spin your argument another direction since you're wrong on this?
Look at the states that have the most laws that favor illegals vs. those that have laws against them. I'll give you a hint, California favors illegals, Arizona does not.

They are against welfare for illegals. The Dems are all for creating a welfare state. You talk about the Reps being for it for cheap labor. What cheap labor are you referring to? The jobs where illegals are hired are not dominated by Rep owned big business. Many are Dem owned...yes, rich Dems own greedy corporations too.
None the less in most recent polls over 80% of Americans are totally against anything resembling amnesty. It's not a Rep vs. Dem issue. Once again you just bash Reps and try to tell me how wonderful the Dems are. Ones reason for amnesty is not better or worse than the others.
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While I agree that it may be a lousy election, what exactly are you looking for when you say nobody has stepped up as a leader. The current idiot did just that and look where we are now. This is not an attack, but an honest question, what exactly are you looking for?
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TBone wrote:

Depends on the issue you are referring to. You're issue with Bush is pretty much just ONE issue. Bush has never been a leader on anything else. With regards to immigration there isn't a single politician from both sides that has really stepped up as a leader. They're all pandering for votes. Luckily the fact that almost 80% of voters were against this latest bill it looks like its going down in flames.
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That would be as usual for you, incorrect. I have many issues with Bush such as his horrible foreigh policy, his total disregard for enviornmental issues, his invalid tax cuts that have done damn near next to nothing for the middle class except raise their cost of living, as well as the war that never should have happened.

Then why did you re-elect him. You are hear whining about leadership and yet, you re-elect an non leader.

Do you really think that it wasn't planned to happen that way? They know that there is no low cost way to fix this and even if there was, the rich would never allow it because it would effect their outrageous greedy way of life.
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TBone wrote:

Holding high taxes in a down economy would have been the wrong thing to do. The middle class got by far the largest share of the tax cut. You and I argued this quite some time ago and were proven wrong in your suggestions the rich got the larger cuts.
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Why?
Yawn, back to the fuzzy math once again.

LOL, maybe in your eyes but in reality, you are as full of crap now as you were then. While they may have gotten the larger share, there are also many more times as many of them and in reality, many saw little to no refund while in many cases, the cost of living from these tax cuts has increased way above what little extra they may be getting back which becomes a net loss, not a gain.
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TBone wrote:

Why? Because the economy was falling. Corporations were going bankrupt with rising unemployment. Holding taxes high hurts the economy and actually produces less $'s in revenue. Yes, revenue rose rapidly after the cuts. You're one of those liberals who think that in order to raise federal revenues taxes must be raised and revenues will drop if taxes are cut. More to it than that Tom.

Fuzzy math? Oh ya, you seem to think you can cut taxes for people who pay none. The middle class got the largest cuts. The wealthiest now pay a higher % of total taxes than prior. I've asked for a couple years to tell me what the top ceiling tax rate should be and define who it should be applied to and you've never answered.

Refund? Refunds are based on the amount withheld and not the tax rate itself. Try again.
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