# OT: welding 101

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• posted on March 15, 2006, 6:51 pm

The funny thing is that absolutes are few and far between.

Sounds simple, doesn't it. Too bad it often isn't so. The minute there is even a second variable that changes the outcome, absolutes are out the window. Take voltage for example. While there may be a voltage, if the current requirements can change (as they often do in an accessory jack) to apoint where the voltage drop drops the voltage below a usable level, then there is no absolute. The same goes for all of the above examples, even the switch. While the switch may be on or off there could be internal damage causing it to have some conduction under certain conditions (like high humidity) in the off position or some corrosion causing some current limiting in the on position which once again eliminates the absolute factor.

accept
The problem Budd, is that absolutes cannot be applied to most situations. The funny thing here is that there is no gray area either. If you apply power to a circuit, then it has power as it can be measured. If the circuit is incomplete (like a bad or broken ground) then it cannot be "powered" as it will not function. Too very different things.
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• posted on March 15, 2006, 7:28 pm

No, they're not. But you do have to look for them sometimes then accept that they exist.

It is, but you'll try to complicate it.

Is there a measurable voltage? If there is, then it proves my point, if not, it still proves the point.

Then the switch is defective. Yet, even though defective, it proves the point. The switch will fail either "on" (current passage allowed) or "off" (current passage denied). Both are absolutes.
no gray area when applying an absolute, but some do not

Yes, they can.

An absolute truth / fact proving the point.

An absolute truth / fact proving the point that there is no measurable voltage at the power socket.
--
Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9
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• posted on March 15, 2006, 7:46 pm

that
And many times, they do not. The minute you have a variable, you cannot have an absolute.

or
No, I just understand it more than you.

to
then
not,
It proves nothing. If the voltage changes for whatever reason, there can be no absolute.

damage
But that is not true. If it were a dry day, the switch will not fail or if the current requirements are below the current limiting of the corrosion that day, the switch will work as expected. Again, no absolutes when varaibles are involved.

situations.
And you would be wrong most of the time as most situations have variables and variables make absolutes impossible.

Once again, you fail to see the big picture.

as
Sure there is. There is just no ground there which proves my point, there is power but it is not powered. Thanks Budd.
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If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

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• posted on March 15, 2006, 11:18 pm

Ummm... Budd? Didn't you say a few days ago you weren't going to reply to him anymore?
"I will not be replying to you in the future "
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• posted on March 15, 2006, 11:21 pm
We both knew that wasn't gonna happen
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"Tom Lawrence" < snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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• posted on March 16, 2006, 2:54 am
I did and I mentioned also that it would be a good idea if we avoided each others posts, but he flunked the test.
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Budd Cochran

"Tom Lawrence" < snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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• posted on March 16, 2006, 3:33 pm
Nice try Budd, but it was YOU who started it with not one, but two responses to Maxi's childish post. You may try to hide behind the lame "I was replying to Max" excuse and for the first one and maybe you were but when you came back the next day with your "Now that I have a pot of coffee in my" post, that was a direct response to what I said so now who was it that failed your BS test? I simply replied to your comments as you would and have done and then you replied directly to me so now does that makes you a liar as well? Also FYI, I never agreed to avoid your or anyone else's posts so how can I fail a test that I never agreed to in the first place? If you wish to continue to act like a child with your victims mentality, that is up to you but please stop with the lame accusations.
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"Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom SPAM.net> wrote in message
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• posted on March 15, 2006, 8:12 pm

you don't 'apply power'
you apply voltage, and if and when the circuit is completed, current flows
at that point, you have power being consumed
V = E x I
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• posted on March 15, 2006, 9:13 pm

Are you referring to Ohms law and if so, try getting the equation right. It's V or E = I x R Where V or E = Voltage, I = current, and R resistance. Your equation puts voltage on both sides which is meaningless. If you were looking for the equation for power, that would be P = E x I. The word "power" in this sentence is being used as a generic term for voltage but you already knew that, didn't you?!?! But if not, just replace the word "power" with the word "voltage" and like magic, it still works. Before you jump on me in the future for using the wrong term, make sure that yours are correct, especially in the very complaint you have against me, LOL!
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If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

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• posted on March 15, 2006, 11:47 pm

well then sayt what you mean, Braniac, not what you think you think

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• posted on March 11, 2006, 7:22 am

Well, that will keep the BS down a bit! <BFG>
Roy
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• posted on March 11, 2006, 2:16 pm
Well, it may reduce it by only one eighth. . . . . .
<VBG>
--
Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9
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• posted on March 11, 2006, 12:33 am
wrote:

After using my little miller 185 millermatic (mig) a couple of times the stick welder went out the door. No slag, you can weld thin sheets and heavy steel. I never had any training and get by.

Who are you kidding? We all know that you weld using a couple of flint stones making sparks!

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• posted on March 11, 2006, 2:20 pm

Yes, but some of us don't like our welds to be confused with bee droppings. . . . . . . . ;)

Yep, larned it from ol' Freddy Flintstone's second cousin on his mudder's side. The trick is to be able to bang the rocks together and not get a weld flash, get good penetration and not catch any vital body parts in the process.
Budd
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• posted on March 11, 2006, 3:00 pm
Budd Cochran wrote:

I figure I'll get droppings but I can grind them off if I don't melt all the metal away <grn>
<snip> rach
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• posted on March 11, 2006, 10:48 pm

It's pretty much guaranteed you'll get the "droppings" and the burn throughs at first, just don't give up. It took me three weeks at 2 hrs a day to figure out that Sully was a bit more experienced than me back when I was 20 and knew everything.
Budd
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• posted on March 11, 2006, 4:43 pm
On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 06:38:33 -0700, "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom SPAM.net> wrote:>Hey, Rach,

before I changed professions I was a welder in the pressure piping and vessel industry. Stick (SMAW) is the most versatile in that you can weld all types of materials and positions (without having to have a fortune tied up in wire spools). However, there is an application for everything and Mig (GMAW), flux core (FCAW), tig, (GTAW), submerged arc (SAW) are all valuable to know. Mig in particular if you are going to be welding thinner material that can't stand the heat.
With stick, invest in a DC machine that will go at least 180 amps. More is better, but that seems to be the least costly.

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• posted on March 11, 2006, 8:20 pm
Frank Boettcher wrote:

Thanks Frank
So I'll try to pick up stick (arc) from my neighbour's brother first. I appreciate the advice
Rach
P.S I got a friend to give me some help -- I think we finally got the 86-ish Dodge running with the new rebuilt distributer!
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• posted on March 11, 2006, 9:26 pm
i typically stop following threads once they go to shit with personal attacks, and i cant find the original post on my server. if youre new to welding, i recommend that you read http://collierwelding.com/tech/welders/index.html to get some background on different processes. i need to update the prices, but everything else should be current. if you have any specific questions, please ask.
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Nathan W. Collier
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• posted on March 13, 2006, 8:32 pm
Nathan W. Collier wrote:

Dear Nathan,
I typically ignore personal attacks -- thrown at me, they are usually shit sliding off a teflon coat in the rain, and I figure most other outgoing recipients feel likewise, so there is usually no need to defend the injured party. If I inadvertently attack someone personally, either I was the oly one who got the joke, or I was pityingly poor in expressing a remark well-intentioned ;-)
I found your link extremely useful, and the video was excellent. I forwarded to my teacher (for other inquiring students' minds who want to know.) The video is an excellent medium for this, and I am going to look for more welding instructional videos. When the weather is nice and Marcel, my neighbour's brother, has time, I will ask him to coach me a bit, do a bunch of practice, and repeat, repeatedly, each time he comes up (most weekends) with his welder.
Thanks again
rach