ping: Nate .. old baja pics

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Since their standard of living is so much lower than ours, I would say that their poverty level is also way lower than ours.

You make no sense at all Miles. First you say that their culture is the reason that they live at such a lower standard of living than that common in the US then you say that there definition of poverty is higher than ours or that they don't have one. Please list all of the countries that you can think of that actually have an economy even close to the size of Mexico's and don't classify a poverty level.

It is based on the level below what is accepted as the common standard of living. Since the common standard of living of many that you claim are fine and happy is way below that of ours, it only makes sense that the level that they refer to as poverty is also much lower than what we start it at. Sorry Miles, but all your cultural bullshit is comming back to bite you.

How would you know Miles? Do you have family that live that way as well or are you just referring to your employees. You are referring to the working poor and they are a step or two above true poverty.

You keep talking about the US, why is that? We are talking about Mexico and if their normal standard of living is somewhat lower than that in the US, the poverty level will be as well.

It's based on a dollar amount of wages that they are aware of and since our government always tries to make itself look better and take the easy way out, yea, they are probably wrong. If people are making money under the table to pay for these things or are living in government housing and eating from food stamps then they may be earning enough under the table or the housing might have a common cable connection and still be considered at a poverty level. Does Mexico have all of these social programs?
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TBone wrote:

In comparison perhaps but their needs and priorities are vastly different than ours. People need far less in Mexico in order to be happy.

I spend several hours a day doing volunteer charity work for numerous families in just such a situation. So yes, I most certainly do know. I would think you being the compassionate liberal would be doing even more and get to know the people you're guessing about.

They're smarter than the USA and do not believe in oppression through social handouts that have never done anything to reduce poverty. Yet they do have numerous social programs to help people to help themselves.
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coming from one quoting mexican government statistics thats laughable miles.
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Nathan W. Collier wrote:

IOW;s your a typical person that assumes Mexico is dirt poor with a highly corrupt non-functional Gov. all based on anything but fact. The USA's Gov. is corrupt in much the same manner.
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Actually... I agree with him, Miles.. Believing shit that the Mexican or United States governments tell you is like believing in the Easter Bunny... (sorry Denny)
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mac davis wrote:

Exactly. My point was that for every example of how someone lost out due to corruption in the Mexican Gov., it's pretty easy to find a similar example in the USA. The Mexican Gov. is not a hodge podge of organized criminal corruption. At least not much more than the USA. It's come along ways from 3+ decades ago. However, cities such as Tijuana still have major problems.
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we could go back and forth all day about this and accomplish _nothing_....surely you can agree on that.
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Nathan W. Collier wrote:

IMSS is a Mexican Gov. office that reports economic conditions. They are not 'some website'. As I said, I do have family there and know the economy well. The average wage in Mexico is NOT $5/hr and not even close. It is not a dirt poor country as so many Americans who have never been there believe.
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Actually Miles, he said $5 a DAY, not per hour. I will agree with you that the Mexican economy has improved much in the past years but much like here, most of the money goes to the few and the rest have to scrape to get by. If conditions are as good as you say, there simply would not be the number of people trying to get here from there.
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TBone wrote:

You're correct. My typo. But point still stands. Mexicans on average are paid many times over $5/day.

You have no comprehension of what part of the Mexican society is coming here. None at all. It is NOT an overall mix of people. They are much of the part that Mexico does not want and why the Mexican Gov. encourages them to come to the USA. We get their problems that they do not want.
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Your point is complete crap. Even $20 dollars a day is nothing compared to even minimum wage here in the US. Like I said, and you wonder why they flood our borders.

More crap that you cannot possibly back up. Many of the Mexicans that I know and deal with are very hard working people. Sure, we get some of the scum comming across as well but that doesn't make it the majority.
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You have to consider cost of living, T... Say a guy is making $65 a day in Ca, as opposed to $20 a day in Mexico... He could rent a 1 bedroom apt. here for about $150 a month... I just don't see that happening in Ca... Food and clothing are probably about the same, if he lived in a cheap area of Ca..
Of course, with no green card and probably not speaking any English, he's not going to have a prayer in hell of making min. wage in the states..
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I think that you also need to consider the cost of living there Mac. People are not going to work for less than they need to survive, at least not for long. If the cost of living is high as it is in CA, then they will make more because the employers simply will not be able to get workers for less. Now the illegals will work for less than many of the legals and just about any American, but they still need to make enough to survive. They are also used to much lower standards of living than most Americans so having 6 or more workers sharing a 1 bedroom apartment is no big deal for them as they have electricity, running water, an indoor bathroom, heat and AC, and some securitry. The extra money can be sent back home to their families.

And the rent would also be much lower if he lived in a low income area. I'm not going to get into a big argument with you on this or claim to have more knowledge on the subject as unlike you, I don't live there. But by listening to you, I can say that many don't have the highest standard of living for whatever reason and they are comming here and in large numbers and giving up their home for a reason.

That's not really true either. Employers are going to pay what they must to get the workers to work. As Miles said, many of the illegals in AZ have driven the price of day labor to $15 an hour amd more. That is more than a little bit above minimum wage. Even illegals are not going to work for less than they need to survive.
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Very true.. I saw a lot of really packed housing in the Fresno & Madera areas of CA...
A big difference there is that these were seasonal workers, following crops from Mexico, Ca, AZ and so on, as crops were ready to pick..
Otoh, very few people crossing the borders illegally are very highly skilled.. The demand for skilled labor, especially high tech, is very strong in the Ensenada and TJ areas and building skills are in demand in most of Baja..
Some of the larger condo complexes going up in my area have had to import a lot of the labor from the States..
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wrote:

That's kinda funny as many of the builders here in NC (at least my area) are Mexican and many don't speak much if any english. Now I don't know if they are all illegals or not but I bet some of them are as it sorta looks like they live in that van they drive to the sites. Then again, their work is far from the best that I have seen but they are paid by the job, not the hour so the more work that they do.... I guess that many will always go where the money is. Now that the building in shis state is rapidly comming to a halt as it is in many other areas of the country, you may get some of them back.
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WOW.. I can't even imagine being from Mexico, especially the Baja, and experiencing a NC winter... *shudder*
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lol.....you should have seen my employee oscar coming from mexico city into a montana winter. i swear he moved in slow motion. :-)
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TBone wrote:

Nah, I wonder how people like yourself can argue about a country they have zero comprehension of and have never even been there.

How many people do not come here? What part of Mexico's society is coming here? You have no clue to either answer.
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Also, Miles, as I've mentioned a few times, what SKILL LEVEL people are going to the States?
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mac davis wrote:

Mostly under and uneducated. Mexico exports its poverty instead of dealing with it themselves. Americans tend to believe Mexico by and large is mostly living in poverty. That leads them to feel those that come here are a cross section of the Mexican population. I find Mexicans in Mexico nicer, harder working and more willing to give even when they are living in poverty.
We invited a man selling crafts on the beach over to our trailer for a BBQ. On a later trip he invited our entire family over to his house where his wife made us the best tamale's I've ever had. Just a fun experience meeting the locals there. Always so friendly to us.
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