Removing transmission

Its far better to seperate them.

I have never changed a cluctch on a Dodge, but I have on a Ford. If you leave the transfer case bolted to the transmission, the transmission becomes very hard to handle. This is especially true when trying to line up the input shaft of the tranny throgh the throw out and pilot bearings. The weight of the transfer case make it hard to keep the coupled pair hard to keep level and horizontal. It was very easy to R&R the transfer case.

Have you ever replaced a clutch before?

John

On my last transmission R&R, I thought about it... for about 10 seconds before realizing I was making more work for myself. The driveshafts have to come off anyway, so you're only talking 6 nuts to remove in order to yank the transfer case.

Definately.

. . snipped-for-privacy@qwest.net (Big=A0Al)

Have a 92 Dodge W250. The throw out bearing is starting to go bad.

(Questions)

1) Has anyone here pulled the transmission and transfer case as a unit?

2) How bad was it?

3) Would it be better to separate them?

Any hints would be appreciated.

Al, Dreading this. I may start going out for quotes.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Al, answers to yer questions......

1) I have pulled a hundred or so Mopop standards 4x4s.

2) The first one caused a couple skint knuckles....... the last one was a breeze....(2 days ago)

3) as already stated by others in the thread...... YES....seperate the t-case from the tranny.

hints......???

pay somebody to do it.

You should be able to get the clutch set with pilot, release bearing, and flywheel done for around $600 at a tranny shop. It'll be done usually in one day.....and....... WITH A WARRANTY.......and having the rear seal and topcover resealed at the same time.

Nutt'ns quite a frustrate'n as get'n that big arse assembly all back togeather..... firing it up...... and ....."S C R E E E E E C H"...... someptins not rite...damn......gotta take it back out. (unless you payed someone to do it)

You can likely pick up the complete clutch set for around $125 (give or take) for a high quality set. You need to figure in t-case fluid and tranny lube....bout another $20. Add for rear seal and t-case gasket...bout another $13. Add on for a can of brake cleaner.... don't wanna stick an oilly flywheel back on with a new clutch disk......bout $2. Add for having the flywheel machined.....don't wanna have no clutch shudders.....bout $35. Add for an engine oil filter and a quart of motor oil......bout another $8.

so....not including "Go-Jo", and if you don't use more than one can of brake cleaner, and if you don't use silicone sealand on the top cover, an if you don't drop it on yer chest and have to run on down to the emergency room for an x-ray........and you already got grease for lubing everything back up..... and you don't spend too much on beer fer that buddy that's GOING TO HAVE TO help you......

if figure if you do it yerself......... AND DO IT RITE...... you should get out for around...$215 after tax.....

unless of course.....something went wrong and you have to pull it back out...... on yer back.......... with a tippsy floor jack.... (you do got a floor jack....don't yuh?) (how bout yer buddy...he got one?)

Worst Case Scenerios.... (1) The case halves could leak fluid after you bolt the t-case back on....(because you listened to a good buddy and used silicone sealer instead of a gasket...like i told you to).

(2) You end up with a gag-awfull shudder because the flywheel looked good "To You"....so you you scrimped and didn't have it machined.

3) You get a growl or swak sound when letting of the clutch when the trannies in gear..... bcause you boogered up the pilot bushing when you installed it.

4) The pedal goes to the floor.....and no amount of pumping it gets the tranny to shift without grinding..... (do a repost if this happens...we're in to deep to quit now)

5) You crack the bellhousing putting the tranny back in when you tighten down on the bolts because you tried to "pull" it up that last 1/2 inch or so.

6) No ones around........ when the tranny falls off the jack on yer arm.

7) You get it out.......... but screw that........ you're gonna eat crow and call somebody to put it back in ....... cuz you show ain't gonna even try to do it on yer back.....whewww....that tangs heavy. ($300 with the tow bill)

Suggestion..... if you do decide to do the job, it's not rocket science....it's common sense. Jest set aside one full day for the job...tell yourself your not stopping till your finished and don't mess around with it....."git'r done". On the ground, with a floor jack, with a buddy, you should be able to do the entire job in less than 4 hours if you buy everything ahead of time....that includes letting yer buddy run down to the machine shop and waiting on the flywheel, while you're changing the rear t-case seal, pilot bushing, sanding the input shaft, putting a light coat of grease on the pilot shaft, the inner collar of the release bearing, and putting a VERY light coat on the inner collar of the clutch disc and on the release prongs on the preasure plate. Sand the rust off the "dowl pins" that are sticking out the back of the engine block, they're for lining up the bellhousing. Thick arse coat of grease on these...and their mating holes in the bellhousing. Not doing this "may" cause probs sliding the unit back in. Use a bronze pilot bushing....NOT a pilot bearing...unless the bearing type is all you can find. Bronze bushings hold up better than the bearing type.....and are less likely to get boogered up when you pound them in. When using that plastic "line-up" tool that comes in the clutch kit, hold up on it SLIGHTLY while you tighten down the preasure plate. Those things ain't precision and this will save you bout 30 minutes of cussing when you go to stab the tranny back in. MAKE SURE......the bellhousing is FLUSH with the engine when you tighten up the bell-housing bolts....DO NOT try to pull the tranny forward with the bolts.......EVER... NEVER....EVER........unless you have to, then be dang show you inch it forward and if it ain't moving...stop trying and figure out whats up. (maybe yer fergits to grease the dowl pins)

Taking it Out....

take the shifter out of the transmission.... remove the trim on the floorboard, inside the cab, to get at it.

drain the t-case

drain the tranny

remove the engine oil filter

remove the bellhousing bolt that wouldn't come out with the oil filter on.

remove the starter, and the threaded stud that the bottom starter nut goes on.

remove the bellhousing bolt that was hidden above the starter

remove the two tranny mount bolts and jack the tranny up so that the tranny isn't sitting it's weight down on the crossmember.

Take the crossmember bolts out .....beat, pry, bang, and take the crossmember out.

It's pretty much common sense from there....

if you get a bolt that won't turn...whack it with hammer and a punch. whack it...not tap it... not bump it....whack it. (keep this in mind on the driveshaft bolts if they give you a prob)

and.....if you don't have access to a floor jack (which is tricky as she-ite)...then do a repost and I'll walk you through the milk crate method....

one more thing..... if you do it this saturday...... drag yer PC out under the truck with you.....

and if that tranny falls on yer arm.....

and yer buddy didn't show up like he promised.......

and no one comes when you start scream'n.....

do a repost and i'll quickly explain how to an emergency amputation using a flat head screwdriver and a pair of wire cutters....

~:~ MarshMonster ~walks under the lift.....and goes back to work~

Many times. I have a 4 post lift and a lot of time. Was just trying to get some idea what I was looking at. May rent a transmission jack and just have a go at it:)

Thanks to everyone that responded. The bearing first showed signs of a problem around two years ago. Was noisy when I first started the truck, then it shut up. Now it's really loud. I'm afraid it will lock up and really start damaging things. The clutch is fine but I'll at least change the disk while I'm in there. Can't help thinking the hydraulic clutch mechanism has something to do with this.

Al

and if that tranny falls on yer arm.....

and yer buddy didn't show up like he promised.......

and no one comes when you start scream'n.....

Reminds me of something that happened many years ago. My friend had a Hemi Coronet and the clutch disk split. So I was under the car removing the transmission. Had everything loose but it would not budge, so I was under the transmission pulling on the tail shaft and rocking it up and down. The transmission jumped off the bell housing and fell right on my chest. The car was not up very high and I could not get out from under the transmission and I could not roll it off me. While I was suffocating somehow I got free. My chest was sore for a month. That was my first MOPAR 4 speed extraction. Before that most of what I worked on were Chevy's and they had toy 4 speeds. Much later I pulled the transmission out of a 76 Volare, super six with the overdrive transmission. One look at that thing reminded me of the Hemi. Drilled four holes in the swivel plate on my floor jack and made an angle iron frame to hold the transmission. It was no problem at all.

Al

It's probably not, Al. All the "hydraulic clutch" does is replace the old, bind-prone mechanical linkage between pedal and bellhousing.

However, an improperly bled hydraulic clutch can, when the system gets warm from under the hood heat, hold pressure on a throwout bearing . . .just like it would be if you rode the pedal.

-- Budd Cochran

So what keeps the throw out bearing from riding on the clutch fingers? I don't remember seeing a spring of any kind under there.

Al

None.

By design there is supposed to be a small fraction of a inch clearance. This was seen in the mechanical systems as your pedal's "freeplay". When air is left in the system the air can warm up and expand causing the fingers to ride the bearing.

-- Budd Cochran

Ok, by what design? The master cylinder is above the slave cylinder. Gravity would put some pressure on the slave cylinder. I don't see any way for the slave to back off the throw out arm. On an old truck with mechanical linkage, there are two springs to keep the throw out bearing off the pressure plate fingers. And, when adjusted correctly, it works.

Al

Had one that did that, in an old Chevy LUV...it's problem was an improperly installed cup gasket...try being a tiny little twenty year old female and getting *that* diagnosed...every mechanic in town just *knew* I was riding the clutch...

After two clutches, I finally tore the hydraulics apart, figured it out, fixed it, and got another 50,000 out of the last clutch and still going strong when I sold it...;>)

That was a '76...I bought a '78 years later, and it had a cable linkage...hmmm, maybe I wasn't the only one that had fun with the things?

Cricket

Drain all the fluid, start the engine and floor the gas. Pop the transmission into reverse. It should fall out all by itself.

My bad. I did not read your question correctly. I thought it was an automatic and you just wanted to remove it. I don't know about standards. I would guess you take them out one way and put them back just the opposite way.

Al,

I can only speak in generalities of the design since I don't have exact knowledge of your truck's design.

Some designs have springs, some don't. The same is true of the mechanical linkages.

Now, if your truck has been apart before, then maybe someone left off the springs. I don't know exactly.

-- Budd Cochran

Budd is correct, many times in a hydraulic clutch design, the throwout bearing continues to ride lightly on the clutch fingers. It is assumed that as long as the pressure is light (gravity feed of fluid is very light) it will have little effect on th clutch.

. .

The master cylinder is above the slave cylinder. Gravity would put some pressure on the slave cylinder.

I don't see any way for the slave to back off the throw out arm.

On an old truck with mechanical linkage, there are two springs to keep the throw out bearing off the pressure plate fingers. And, when adjusted correctly, it works. Al =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

The slave does not back off the "throw out" arm. It stays in contact with it. (Release Arm)

Why..??....because if it didn't ..... it would fall out the ball seat on the release arm and when you stomped down on the clutch pedal the rod would shoot out into the bellhousing.....and the slave cylinder piston would come blowing out. Which would be a nasty thing and quite the inconvenience to repair all the time.

A spring placed BEHIND the apply piston inside the slave keeps the piston forward, pushing forward the apply rod, against the release arm, moving the release bearing forward on the bearing retainer, which rides in contact with the pressure plate......AT ALL TIMES, unless the systems fubar'ed.

The spring tension of the Pressure Plate works against the spring tension of the Slave Cylinder apply piston.........

and....wah..lah...... no hydraulic pressure..... Jest an ole timey mechanical spring and arm set up........in a fancy package.

Can you figure out why the piston can move in and out at over 1500 rpms without creating hydr. pres. that would actually cause the clutch to apply?

~:~ MarshMonster ~has to go work on his truck....got to get that brake master cylinder below the level of the calipers~

. .

However, an improperly bled hydraulic clutch can, when the system gets warm from under the hood heat, hold pressure on a throwout bearing . . .just like it would be if you rode the pedal.

. .

Al =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Nothing.....

if the systems working correctly.

~:~ Marsh Monster

The master cylinder is above the slave cylinder. Gravity would put some pressure on the slave cylinder.

I don't see any way for the slave to back off the throw out arm.

On an old truck with mechanical linkage, there are two springs to keep the throw out bearing off the pressure plate fingers. And, when adjusted correctly, it works. Al ========= =========

The slave does not back off the "throw out" arm. It stays in contact with it. (Release Arm)

Why..??....because if it didn't ..... it would fall out the ball seat on the release arm and when you stomped down on the clutch pedal the rod would shoot out into the bellhousing.....and the slave cylinder piston would come blowing out. Which would be a nasty thing and quite the inconvenience to repair all the time.

A spring placed BEHIND the apply piston inside the slave keeps the piston forward, pushing forward the apply rod, against the release arm, moving the release bearing forward on the bearing retainer, which rides in contact with the pressure plate......AT ALL TIMES, unless the systems fubar'ed.

The spring tension of the Pressure Plate works against the spring tension of the Slave Cylinder apply piston.........

Thank you for trying to understand this crap design. So, the engineers think it's OK to have the throw out bearing spin continously. That's why they don't last as long as they used to. In the interest of lower cost, the engineers have again screw us with a poor design.

If the hydraulic system had a spring like Budd said there would be no way to control free play. it would just "return" the slave all the way in.

~:~ MarshMonster

~has to go work on his truck....got to get that brake master cylinder below the level of the calipers~

Another problem I had to deal with in my 74 Camaro race car. At least I figured that one out by myself.

Al