Page 7 of 9
• posted on June 23, 2005, 4:15 am

Yer so damned full of how the laws of physics work, why don't you tell US how that works?
--
Max

Give a man a match, and he is warm for a short while. Light him on fire, and
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 4:40 am

You are the one making the claims here Max. How about you back up what you are saying instead of expecting me to do it.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 12:45 pm

--
Max

Give a man a match, and he is warm for a short while. Light him on fire, and
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 2:06 pm

Yes he did. He basically said, no , he did say that a TC produces torque from RPM, thanks Max.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 2:35 pm

wrong again:
a torque converter converts horsepower from high-rpm / low-torque to low-rpm / high-torque
CONVERTS
not 'produces'
(sigh) I guess I'm gonna have to do the entire HP - torque - rpm equation thing this evening..........not that it will help any
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 4:26 pm

Yes, you are but we are used to it.

And by the conversion, produces more torque.

And uses the conversion to produce something http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/produce Look at definition 2 "come to have or undergo a change " Now I may be wrong but a conversion is a change.

Wrong, it doesn't create but it can produce a change or conversion, wait, you already said that.

The entire equation, LOL. How about Power (HP) = torque(lbf-ft) * angular speed.(rpm) / 5252. Now there are other derivations of this equation and this one does not take loss into account but it serves the purpose here. Now since power at any given point has to remain constant, if you reduce the RPM the torque must go up and the only way that can happen is to PRODUCE more of it. While the production is being done by a simple mechanical advantage, it is still being done.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 8:17 pm

No, he said, converts RPM to torque, hence the name, TORQUE CONVERTOR
If yer gonna quote someone, then you find out what they said.
--
Max

Give a man a match, and he is warm for a short while. Light him on fire, and
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 9:22 pm

I know what he said but converting something is just another way of producing something.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 2:45 am

No laws of physics are violated because its not an increase, its a reconfiguration.
--
Max

Give a man a match, and he is warm for a short while. Light him on fire, and
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 11:00 am
Max Dodge wrote:

reconfigured, by decreasing the RPM, and increasing the torque. Clay
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 12:52 pm

Dammit Clay, I was busy running him around a tree just to see if he'd figure it out.
Seriously, thats exactly right. Unfortunately, he never figured it out. Hp is directly transmitted, and the T(ft lbs) and RPM numbers are inversely affected by the gearing, with one sacrificed for the other. He could have done exatly what you did, and come up with the right answer, but he didn't have the knowledge to do it.
Kudo's to you Clay.
--
Max

Give a man a match, and he is warm for a short while. Light him on fire, and
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 2:04 pm

Actually, all you are doing is spinning this ridicules notion and have suckered someone else into believing it.

No, it isn't.

That might be because it is, well, W R O N G...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, that was a good one. First of all, the TC is a fluid coupling device so there is no direct transmission of anything. Sacond, unless your TC is a special unit, there are no gears in there at all so that kills point two. Third, if the brakes are applied, the TC takes that HP and converts it into or P R O D U C E S heat. Look at that, it can produce more than just torque.

No, the problem is that I do have the knowledge to know that you are wrong. Using the term reconfiguresd is nothing more than semantics and is just plain silly. Even an engine does nothing more than convert liquid fuel into mechanical energy so I guess it is just reconfiguring the fuel, right?!?!?!? Or even discounting that, the piston produces linear energe that is reconfigured by the union of the connecting rod and crankshaft so I guess that the engine cannot produce torque either. Damn, where does it come from then?
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 8:31 pm

Nope! Gary, Tom, me, a bunch of us, have been WAITING for you to use the right term for a couple of days now. But you NEVER even thought of touching on the torque/hp/RPM relationship. THis despite Gary actually typing it in a couple of times.

Yeah, it is. Clay is deadnut on, and you'll argue that simply because you couldn't figure it out.

Wow, did you backpedal in a hurry......You are now depending on a fluid coupling to disprove the basic theory of a transmission. OK, explain how it happens in a manual shift.

Well, it must be a really special unit if its used without a transmission. But this is another attempt at backpedalling. Remember, the more ya back up, the closer to being against the wall you become.

Sure, it produces heat, but it'll never produce torque.

1) all of us other than you are NOT wrong. Its simple math, but we know thats not easy for you either. 2) you don't have the knowledge, or you'd have seen where this was going.

Well yeah, thats why they use HP, something you never mentioned. You insist on "produces", "brings forth" and a myriad of other "silly" terms, but not once did you mention HP.

No, its reconfiguring energy, but you are starting to get the hang of how stupid your semantics game gets when used effectively against you.

Well, unless the crankshaft is not part of the engine, it comes from the engine.
--
Max

Give a man a match, and he is warm for a short while. Light him on fire, and
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 9:43 pm

Really, when did Tom get involved in this part of the thread?

You are saying that because he fell for your spin. You cannot increase torque without producing more of it, regardless of the method.

We are not talking about a manual shift Max, we are talking about a TC and an automatic. Please keep in line with the subject and BTW, you are still wrong here.

The only one backing up here is you. We were talking about the ability of the TC and the transmission to create torque, not just the transmission. Since the TC doesn't have gears OR a direct coupling capability (with the exception of a locking converter at lockup), your theory is full of holes and the only one backing up at light speed it you.

You just said multiple times that the transmission and the TC are both incapable of producing anything and now you are backpedaling and saying that it can produce heat. Please make up your mind and how can it produce heat and not torque?

What does math have to do with it?

Knowledge has little to do with predicting your spin.

Because HP is a combination of torque and angular velocity and since the HP must remain constant (although it actually doesn't due to losses not counted in the equation) if you drop RPM, you must increase or produce more torque to keep the equation balanced.

Just like the transmission does and the TC too for that matter which now by your own words, either all three can produce torque or none of them can, your choice.

But that would mean that a conversion DOES in fact produce something, imagine that.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 10:31 pm

really ?
then why is it called a torque CONVERTER ??????
once more:
horsepower at high RPM (hence lower torque) IN......................horsepower at lower RPM (hence higher torque) OUT
a CONVERTER.......not a 'producer'
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 23, 2005, 10:46 pm

Why don't you look at the purpose of the stator and then you will see where it gets it name. What it does and how it does it can be two very different things.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 24, 2005, 3:42 am

I have no need to redeem myself. You, on the other hand...

LOL, talk about trying to change the subject. What does me explaining the internal workings of a TC have to do with you errors? Oh yea, nothing. Just another lame attempt of yours at trying to change the subject again and then try to accuse me of it.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 24, 2005, 11:07 am

hey, you're the one that said it 'produces torque'
just thought I'd give you a chance to tell us HOW...............
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
• posted on June 24, 2005, 2:51 pm

True, but not the only one to say that and neither you or Max have been able to prove otherwise. Max showed that he doesn't even know what a lever is or how it works with his linear force BS and you proved beyond all doubt that you don't know how a TC operates with your backwards fluid flow and no idea what the stator actually does so I can see how you simply don't understand how it can produce more torque.

Actually, I think that it is more in line with you wanting me to expalin how it works so that you can understand it.

Beekeep is right, it must really suck to be you. You accuse me of not knowing jack and then give completely wrong information on a subject that you claim to be an expert on so who is the real asshole? Come to think of it, Jerry has you pretty well pegged too, Shadetree. This was fun but it is getting old so I'm done here but I'm sure that we will start again...
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving