Wait, I thought that the solar winds were a largely magnetic or acted mostly on the earths magnetic field. As such, it would have little effect on the helium, unless of course, the helium had iron filings in it. But then, it would have weight, and would fall back to earth and be useless in ballons......
or something like that......
Why don't you perform this test and let me know what the difference in the weight is. I bet that you will not be able to measure it. Now how much does a 1000 cubic feet of uncompressed helium weigh in lets say ounces?
Like I said, how much does it weigh on the ground? I am not saying that it has no mass, but how much force does it put on the scale.
Incorrect. If it had weight, it will fall to the ground, without exception. Even when an airplane flies, it's wings are supplying a force that negates the force of gravity and keeps the plane in the air (IOW, makes it weightless). Does it eliminate the mass of the plane, of course not but remember, weight is a measurement of force, not mass.
Because the gas is the second most abundent in the universe and crashes into it from the solar winds.
But weight is the force of gravity acting on the mass. If it blows away, then the force (weight) was overcome by another force and simply no longer is relavent.
Yep. They still have the same mass that they always had but if they are flying through the air, then they have no weight (relative to the ground)
9.8m/s² is a rate of acceleration and that will never happen as long as an atmosphere exists on the planet.
nope
but at that orbital distance, the vehicle is effectively 'falling' toward earth in a curve (ellipse) that never reaches earth; or you could say that centrifugal force balances gravity
either way, the shuttle and everything in it is effectively WEIGHTLESS
it is, however, not MASSLESS as Bone-Head would have us believe
I know, but do you?
Exactly. And helium has an atomic weight as well. SO no matter how ya cut it, helium isn't "weightless" like you claim..
I know hte answer, but you obviously don't, considering that you think helium has no weight in its gaseous state.
You're right, I never could convince you of anything thatmade sense, you've always stuck to the crap you believe, like weightless helium.
No Tom. Take a bottle and pull a vacuum on it. Place the bottle inside a vacuum chamber on top of a scale and weigh it. Now fill the bottle with helium and while still in the vacuum chamber weigh it again. It now weighs more...hmm...helium has weight!
Weight is not definded as a relation to the weight of air. You are WRONG! But VERY funny that you define it this way!!
Nope, it's slightly less computed as a ratio from the distance to the center of the earth. We are about 4,000 miles from the center. The shuttle is about 4,120 miles from the center. Now Tom, can you explain to us all why astronauts float around in the shuttle? Is it because gravity is so weak at 120 miles up?
By "uncompressed", I'm assuming you mean at normal atmospheric pressure and temperature...
11 pounds, 4 ounces. A liter of helium, at SCF temperature/pressure, weighs .1785g. You can do the math...
Please show me exactly where I said that the mass EVER changes. Oh, that's right, you cant! Maybe someday you will figure out that very complex equation. LOL
LOL, you just don't understand what weight is, do you? Yes, in a complete vacuum where there are no other forces acting on the helium, gravity will cause it to apply a downward force (weight), as minimal as it is. But in reality, not only does it not apply a downward force (weightless), it actually has lift so while it has a atomic weight (as everything with a mass does) it has no weight on this planet under normal conditions and is so weightless as to not even be able to be held in the atmosphere by this planets gravitational force. So while it has both mass and from that atomic weight, if you can't get a reading on a scale under normal conditions, then it has no downward force and no weight. You really need to stop confusing weight and mass or weight and atomic weight.
Weight is a downward force under whatever conditions exist. Since this planet is not currently in a vacuum, lighter than air gasses have no weight on the earths surface. If a scale cannot measure it, then it simply has no significant weight.
Nope, it is because the shuttle is in orbit and basically in a constant free-fall. The constant change in direction cancels out the force of gravity so the shuttle and its contents have no weight. Do they have mass, of course they do, that doesn't change but since mass is not weight ....
Since I just said it, I guess that I do.
LOL, is there a reason why consistantly make an ass out of yourself. Atomic weight is not the same thing as actual weight, you do know that, don't you?
If you knew the answer, you would have said it. IOW, you don't have a clue. Helium has no weight in its uncompressed gaseous state on this planet because the density of the air that makes up our atmosphere applies more upward force to the gas than gravity can supply to pull it down. Since weight is a net force in a downward direction, if the forces going the other way are stronger, you simply have no actual weight.
You can't convince me because 90% of the time, you are wrong. Helium is weightless on this planet because the forces pushing it away from the surface are greater than gravity trying to pull it back. Weight is a measurement of force toward the planet, not the objects mass.
Are you talking in a vacuum or under normal atmospheric conditions (with air). Either way, it proves my initial point to DJ before it became the distorted mess it now is which mass and weight are not the same thing.
I sorta, kinda understand TBones logic, although it's rather bizzare, twisted and confusing. Maybe TBone lives in Bizzarro World, who knows...
Something is being left out here. The assertion that once a "lighter than air" aircraft has enough differential in density to become bouyant in our atmosphere that it becomes weightless, ignores the fact the airship is indeed still pushing down on the atmosphere with the same force it was pushing down on terra firma as it sat before being filled with "gas".
The idea that once something is "supported" by external forces, it is rendered "weightless" is just plain silly. By this reasoning, I should be able to pick up a bowling ball, hold it above the ground and render it weightless. After all, it is truly being supported by a force acting in direct oppositoin to gravity. The bowling ball now weighs nothing, but I now weigh 16 lbs more than I did prior to lofting the ball.
The same thing holds true for the hot air balloon. The atmosphere is supporting the weight of the balloon but suddenly that very atmosphere now weighs more than it did before it took on the load of supporting the balloon. The theory of equal and opposite reactions would dictate if the air is pushing upwards on the balloon, it must be pushing down on the surface of the earth with exactly the same amount of force.
DJ
right here:
" Because weight is a measurment of a force, not a volume or mass."
since weight = mass x acceleration, the only way you can have 'no weight' is for either mass OR acceleration OR both to equal zero
since you were talking about helium 'having no weight', we see that you are comparing it to 'other things' which 'have weight', therefore, acceleration (gravity) is still present
therefore, acceleration does NOT equal zero, so for 'mass x acceleration ' to equal zero, mass must be zero
now, I know this is heavy math/logic for somebody that doesn't understand percentages, but read it REAL slow, and maybe it will sink in
Which is correct.
Now, please read what you wrote, mass OR acceleration. We will get back to this later.
acceleration
Hahahahahahaha, you really are an idiot. Acceleration is more than just gravity. Acceleration is a net force where in a perfect world gravity would be it but in reality, gravity is only a part of it. If other forces acting on the mass are opposed to the force of gravity, g gets smaller and if they are greater than the force of gravity in the opposite vector or direction, g becomes zero or even funnier, a negative number which would give our object a negative weight such as "lighter than air". Now the problem is that the density of air at ground level and pretty much through our entire atmosphere is more dense than helium which causes it to place a force on the helium greater than the force of gravity and in the opposite direction. Remember "g" of the equation. If you now add these forces at the point of measure to get the actual value of "g", you will get a number that is less than zero for this particular gas which when plugged into your equation, will give a weight of less than zero as well, hence, the gas floats away.
I guess that you really are this dumb or at least as mathematically/logically challenged as you accuse me of being. But to make this even simple enough for you to understand, if you put your quantity of helium or any other substance on a scale under normal conditions, and get no reading, then it has no downward force or no weight, PERIOD.
LOL, is this the best that you can do? I never claimed to be a mathematician and it was a simple mistake, one that many in here also made. You OTOH, claim to be a transmission expert but don't understand either the production of torque or how a TC operates. The sad thing is that a TC is a very simple device and if you don't understand its operation, I doubt that you have a clue on how the transmission itself works.
I didn't say that it was my second response either. I do however, have enough respect for people that I don't come out of the gate with the name-calling like others do. If it turns to that down the road, then so be it.
atmosphere.
I don't recall water vapor supporting any type of ship, never mind an aircraft carrier. If it could, there would be no reason for dry-dock. Now water itself is a liquid while vapor is a gas, you do know that, right????
I know what it means, do you?
when talking 'weight', gravity = acceleration
stop trying to spin
once more, Braniac:
weigh a container that is drawn down to a 'hard' vacuum inside
then weigh it when it is filled with helium
I didn't see anyone other than yourself trying for three weeks to deny that
3% / 2% = 150%'the rest' got it fairly quickly, you kept calling it 'fuzzy math'
Absolutely. This is easily demonstrated at home. Fill a glass with water, about 3/4 full. Put it on a scale. Now add an ice cube. The ice cube is floating in the water (because it is slightly less dense than the water, just like a balloon is less dense than the air around it). The scale shows the added weight of the ice cube.
Most reasonable people understand this concept, almost intuitively. Others claim selective application of the laws of gravity.
No - it proves you were wrong. You claimed it would have no weight (remember? "I'll bet that you will not be able to measure it"). It can be measured... rather easily. Why? Because it has mass. Therefore, it weighs something.
In a vacuum, at 1 atmosphere, or at 10,000psi - doesn't matter. That MASS of helium (not volume, remember..) weighs 11.25lbs. here on earth. When contained in an environment, such that it's density is greater than the air around it, it stays on the ground. If allowed to expand such that it's density is less than the air around it, it floats upward. This has nothing to do with weight, because it weighs the same (because the mass is constant, and gravity is a constant). The fact that an object is bouyant does NOT mean it is weightless.
LOL, Ya, I and most others here do. You don't. You think weight is strictly a relation to air.
Um Tom, I work in this very exact field. I write software for the aerospace industry for measuring mass and force. To compute an items known mass to force (weight) you figure in the local gravity as well as local bouyancy for the environment the object is placed in be it air, water or whatever.
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