tranny service advice

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But the Allison is designed to make this level of service EASY, unlike Ford and DC and from what I have heard, it is a much stronger trans and therefore can be subjected to much more severe use requiring more frequent changes.

I would suspect that the Allison could follow the DC and Ford specs with no real problems under the same work loads. What really matters is the individual definitions of severity use that the makers are going by.

you
For someone who tends to be a stickler for words, you really are dropping the ball here. I said take it apart not completely disassemble it and since the pan is a part of the case, you ARE taking it apart to get to the filter.

Yawn.
to
Which is easy to do if you have never done it before.

And I guess indestructible as well and if by some magic it tears or is damaged while being removed, can you get it at the auto-parts store?

Who cares about the Diff, are we not talking about transmissions and BTW, I have NEVER changed the fluid in a diff (unless I swamped it) and with the exception of the current POS DC 9 1/4 rear, have NEVER had a failure.

Which costs many people even more money since it does take longer to change the filter and fluid when you need to remove the damn pan to do it and time = $$$$$ for service work.
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"pretty much take the trans apart"... sounds like disassemble to me.

The pan is it's own part - it's bolted TO the case. Is the oil pan part of the block? The cover part of the differential housing?

Pretty easy to do with an engine oil change, too... you live, you learn.

Actually, yes. But, given that it's a steel-core gasket covered in a flexible plastic, the chances of it tearing are pretty slim.

I know - but I bring it up because it's the same procedure.

"With these trucks' abilities to be taken off-road, and therefore be subjected to mud and water, it's patently rediculous that they would design the axles to be so difficult to service. They should have drain plugs, fill plugs, check plugs, and water separators so I don't have to spend 2 minutes removing 12 bolts to change the damn fluid". Sounds pretty rediculous, doesn't it?

I'm willing to bet that the price of a transmission service at the Chevy dealer is going to be pretty much on par (within 5%) of the Dodge dealer. The fact is, any shop is more than equipped to handle this kind of work, and the extra 10 minutes spent removing the pan (which would have to be done anyway, because the bands are to be adjusted when the fluid is changed) and filter isn't going to alter the rate, since it's all billed on the hour anyway.
Shall we now discuss why the Dodge transmissions are junk because they use bands, instead of a more complicated system of holding clutches?
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Everything from a D100 to a D600, according to the FSM.

LOL, you CLEARLY have never had a trans apart. Pan bolts and three screws, and you call it "pretty much apart." Is your head up your ass?

Unfortunately, the weakest point on these transmissions is the idiot behind the wheel, 90% of the time.

Because they aren't smart enough to buy the towing package OR, they buy a used truck that doesn't have it.

LOL, It HAS a deeper pan!! And they don't run much hotter, maybe 20 degrees, if used properly.

"Sure it is?" You clearly don't know damn thing. Thats right, you drive a manual shift. So you are basing your argument on the longer engine oil intervals? WTF? You've got nothing, shut up.

4000? Wow, you take the cab off to change the fluid?

None of them do. Your point is moot.

Three screws, wow thats hard.

I'm not as dumb as you are I guess, since you apparently stand UNDER the trans and on TOP of the drain pan.

Use a good sealer, and there are no worries.

Make sure the cab is lined up square.......

Wow thats tough, a little restraint and attention to detail, something you should use with anything mechanical.

This neat invention known as a "funnel" eliminates the prayer part of it, not to mention making it very easy. I put 10 quarts in a 4L60E yesterday using a funnel. It took me 5 minutes, because we test drove it to get it warm to be sure the fluid level was accurate on the dipstick.

By whose standards? It takes longer to wash the damn truck than it takes to change the trans fluid. I bet you do that more than twice a year.

Yeah, and your "4000 bolts" are real accurate as well.
Keep spinning......
--
Max

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Max Dodge wrote:

Or the factory cooler is insufficient. I have the factory cooler on my 2001 Ram QC 1500. I also put a deep mag-hytech pan on the tranny and a temp guage. It runs hot.
When pulling my trailer up grades in the summer it will climb to 240+. I have no idea why as several techs have said the factory cooler should be sufficient.
One thing that bothers me is the routing is through the radiator. That would seem to prevent the tranny fluid from ever cooling below the water temp which is 200+.
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Which has been both blessing and failure.... in the winter, it might actually help to warm the fluid, depending on lattitude of location.
Its also notable that engines run warmer now than they did in the 70's because of emissions designs.
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a
Like I said, resorting to the aftermarket.

This is the temp of the water entering the radiator, not the temp leaving it.
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TBone wrote:

And the problem is??
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Not a thing other than you shouldn't have to.
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"miles" < snipped-for-privacy@nopers.com> wrote in message
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TBone wrote:

So manufactures should assume that all 1500 Ram truck buyers are going to tow 5,000lbs up 8% mountain grades in 115 degree heat and equip the base model to handle it?
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If you ordered the towing package, absolutely. In that case, the worst case scenario should be what it equipped with, especially since you are paying extra for it and if not, then it should still come equipped to deal with heavy traffic conditions since in today's world there is a lot more of it and many people are using these trucks as passenger vehicles, just like you.
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TBone wrote:

Oh come now TBone, peoples needs vary widely. If they made it for the worst case scerio then they'd have to charge more for it. Now everyone has to pay more even if they don't need it. Possibly they could have different levels of tow packages but the market would be too limited for mass production. Thus, they leave that market sector to the aftermarket.
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case
paying
it
you.
LOL, oh bullshit Miles, you just like to argue and at times, make an ass out of yourself. There are times to cut costs and times not to and if you are going to offer a towing package, then it should be complete or don't bother doing it at all.
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TBone wrote:

lol, good think you aren't in marketing. You just failed miserably with your all too well known absurd logic. Packages are designed to appeal to the most number of people at the price they are willing to pay. If there was money to be made, they'd do it. Sorry TBone, the only reason they don't is because the manufactures couldn't recoup the costs of doing so. If it would, you can bet the tow package would be just as you describe.
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out
are
bother
Please Miles. you should be one of the last people in here to talk about absurd logic.

they are willing to

That is correct to a point. While completely valid for appearence packages, it is a load of crap for mechanical enhancment ones. If they better outfitted your truck with a larger trans cooler, a trans temp guage or warning light, and a deep sump finned pan for say $100 dollars more than what you paid, would you have said no? I doubt it.

Yep, and if they can make even more money using undersized parts that should work for many of the customers then that's what they will do as well. Pretty much exactly what they did and are apparently still doing with the DC 9 1/4 rear bearings.

Sure they could but they can make even more using underrated and less expensive components. They brag about the mighty class 5 receiver and brake line harness making the truck sound like it can tow a house but don't bother to fully protect the transmission if you push these components to their fully rated capabilities and count on the ignorance of the customer as to what else needed to be included but wasn't.

Of course it wouldn't. Doing this would cut into profits and that is the ultimate curse in big business.
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under Schedule B?
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it
Yea, if it happened every day and made up most of the mileage on the vehicle.
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3
Temper, temper Maxi, I wouldn't want you to blow a gasket :-) The fact is that to perform that service, you still need to open the transmisssion which indicates that in its initial design, this level of service was not expected.

of
for
behind
Well, now you are saying that you need to purchase a $600 option just to get what the damn thing needs in the first place, LOL! Sounds cheaper to go with the aftermarket AND get better stuff for less.

degrees,
Always conditions on your answers.

Temper, temper, Maxi. You just hate it when I'm right.

it
It was sarcasm maxi, unless of course your cab is actually held on by over 3900 bolts.

Really, perhaps you should look at the Allison 1000. It also has an external filter making these changes easier than an oil change. I guess that Allison and GM were thinking ahead when they designed this unit.

Not hard, but messy and unnecessary when the filter could be converted to an external spin on type and again, you still have to remove the pan to get to those 3 screws.

Please explain how you remove the filter without it dripping fluid on your arms. I can't wait to here this magic.

Yea, and too much of that good sealer and you screw up the trans and it also makes the pan that much harder to remove the next time.

It just adds time and risk to the procedure which further demonstrates that this level of service was never intended with the design of this trans. Do you remove the oil pan at each oil change or pull the water pump everytime you change the anti-freeze?

Actually, I was referring it pissing out from a bad seal on the pan gasket.

of
to
But it is much easier to wash the truck (ever hear of a car wash) and BTW, I don't anymore. Since DC great painting techniques have the paint on the hood and front fenders delaminating, it is not worth the trouble.

About as accurate as you thinking that many hold the cab down on your truck.

Ditto
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And again, the exact same thing can be said for the Dana 44, 60, 70, 80, Chrysler 9.25", AAM 9.25", 10.5", 11.5". Are you disassembling the axle when you change the fluid? No - you're removing a cover.

If you don't tow, you don't need it. If you tow, you need it. Seems pretty straight-forward to me. And included in that cost is the aux. cooler, the receiver, wiring harnesses, bigger battery, etc. Oh, and by the way - that trailer tow option? It's a $350 option - not $600. Again, you make rediculous exaggerations to try and bolster a failed argument.

Sure - you gonna get all that, AND get it installed (and, oh yeah, warrantied) for less than $350? Go for it...

That would be the one that wants 12,000mile fluid changes, right?

Well, for me - I remove the screws, holding the filter in place. I then grab the filter by the one end, pulling it down and away. The fluid drains into the catch pan, and I don't get any on me.

It's amazing how you can deduce that from the construction of the unit - especially when it clearly states in the service manual to change the fluid and filter at regular intervals. I keep going back to this, but based on your twisted logic, the same can be said for the axles, as well. "Clearly, they were never designed for this level of service". You have to remove the SAME amount of fasteners to change their fluid. AND... according to DC, you have to do it TWICE AS OFTEN as the transmission fluid (yep - they now spec. out 15,000 mile fluid changes on front and rear diffs). So, the ONLY difference between doing a transmission fluid change and a differential fluid change is the three (I could swear it's now two screws) Torx screws holding the filter in place. That's it, Tom.... same gasket issues (as the AAM's now have a reusable gasket as well), same number of fasteners, and in the case of the 11.5" rear, about the same amount of fluid (4qts.) - though I'll argue that it's easier dumping in a gallon of ATF through the dipstick with a funnel than it is getting those bottles of gear oil up and into the diff fill plug hole.
So - why is it acceptable (or is it even acceptable in your eyes? Maybe all axles out there are crap in your esteemed estimation, as well?) for a differential to require a cover (pan) removal, but not a transmission?
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LOL, boy Tom, your noise levels are reaching all new highs. As for the axles, unless you are under heavy duty schedule B or what is actually a heavily used commercial vehicle, you never have to change the fluid in them, at least according to the 97 FSM you don't. This would indicate that they are also not designed with this level of maintenance in mind for the average user.

Funny, that is not the thought comming from the trans experts in here. According to them, you always need it.

aux. cooler, the

that
Were you there when I ordered my truck? That is what I had to pay for it and $250 more than you claim is far from a rediculous exagguration. The only rediculous exagguration being made here is comming from you.

If you only want to keep the transmission cool, you don't need a receiver, wiring harness for it or a bigger battery unless they perform some other function along those lines that the rest of us are unaware of.

Yea, and the one with the EXTERNAL FILTER as well as the DRAIN PLUG and BTW, the GM site claims every 30,000 but then again, you are probably looking at the most extreme schedule again.

your
drains
And how do you get the screws out without it dripping fluid on you or do you wait for an hour or so for it to stop dripping.

fluid
It says so for extreme duty applications which you all seem to think that you fit into. The average truck owner is nowhere near a heavy duty schedule B type of use.

And again, only the heavy duty schedule B even mentions the axles. This would also indicate that for the greater percentage of owners, changing fluid in them is not required.

Hey, you finally got it. For the average owner, they ARE NOT!!!

Perhaps because they are using lower quality components or you are once again, using the most extreme schedule.

the
in
though
dipstick
all
I was not talking about the axles here so I said nothing about them at all so how do you know what I find acceptable or not????
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now normally i would leave well enough alone and stay out of these arguements....but here i go against better judgement.

them,
average
to
i havent seen anyone state that you ALWAYS need em.

less.
BTW,
at
you
trans.
schedule
ok out of a general motors owners manual for a 96 S series severe service/short trip definitions:
most trips are less than 5 to 10 miles (especially important in sub freezing cond) most trips include extensive idling (defined further as frequent stop and go) you operate your vehicle in dusty conditions or off road you tow a trailer if the vehicle is used in an emergency service, taxi, or commercial application
hmmm off the bat even for my old s15 i see 3 that apply and im betting the vast majority could find atleast one of those.

DC,
now
screws
the
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