US Auto makers may become extinct, caused by Unions

No Budd, you missed the part that said "go argue with somebody else" But you really didn't miss it did ya? You responded to my response to Miles. I merely responded to your response to my post. I'm sorry that you find it upsetting that I choose not to argue with you.

Gee thanks Budd, I guess if they continue to screw whineing babies like you they can't be all bad. Maybe I'll join another.

By all means. Actually your posts of late are following your usual pattern, and that is disappointing, but it is what it is.

No they are the same tiresome Budd get's insulted and pissed off, claims he has been attcked, throws the religon card, blame's all his problems on somebody or something, then goes into a snit and stops posting for a bit.

I just don't want to be part of it. Are we done now.

Roy

No, I saw it, read it and understood it to indicate you consider yourself to be superior to me and/or you think you can restrict whom I reply to or comments I can make. The last time I checked this was still an open, unmoderated forum . . .wait, I think you told a few people that when they slammed you for your rude commetaries. Hmm, that makes it good old PKB, doesn't it?

If it had been merely a comment to prevent an argument, you could have been far more polite.

Upset? Whining? Nope, just giving MY viewpoint on the situation...oh, that's what you consider to be "upset and whining". IMHO, it is you that whines everytime someone says anything against your unholy master, the union.

And when will you decide to turn ALL your liberties over to others, Roy? Why not just move to a socialist country and get it over with.

Why do you support organizations that restrict the freedom to work in a chosen profession because one does not want to abide by union rules or pay out monies to that organization? It's called a "Closed Shop", Roy, and it's often kept me from having better jobs as I would be turned down for jobs I was the best candidate for BECAUSE I WOULD NOT JOIN THE UNION. Oh, wait, others don't matter, just your wallet, right? So, your union masters are part of why I'm in the current financial condition I'm in because I applied for a job with the Nickle Plate Line years ago and that was why I was turned down.

Tough, Roy. Killfile me if it bothers you so much. I won't miss your whinings in support of your wallet, or your insulting remarks about my current state of health.

Roy, I was talking about "unions" not "religion", in case your early-onset senility made you forget. Nor did I say I was insulted by a union or that one violated my beliefs. Some time back I said a corrupt union screwed 1500 members over on two occasions, including myself. I also stated my beliefs that unions are dinosaurs and no longer needed because they are usually more corrupt than anything.

Does everyone have to follow your lead about unions? Can't a naysayer post an opposing opinion?

Btw, did you ever consider that my DECISIONS to stop posting for periods of time are for my benefit, not yours? I don't enjoy religious arguments, not continuous insults like some folks do, so I take a vacation from it. I didn't know I needed your permission. A few years back when I was offline for a rather long period, several friends were concerned about my health, so I now give notice of these vacations out of coinsideration for ther friendship. Is that a bad thing to do?

Fine. I didn't twist your arm to force you to reply, did I? You CHOSE to reply, so the fault IS yours.

That's up to you.

We were once friends, we got in a row, I apologized, but you don't seem to have forgiven or forgotten.

I am the person I am. I try to be friends with everyone, try to help where I can and I don't ask anyone to change to suit me nor will I change to suit anyone. I ask only for the same respect anyone else would seek, to be accepted for who I am.

I am opinionated and I am stubborn, but you already knew that and have known it for years.

I am in bad health and it's getting worse, so it, or the medications, may affect what I say or do, that's a part of getting older. I try to proof read all my posts for that reason, but I am Human.

And if you can't handle that, then killfile me. Your recent comments on my health and source of income were extremely insulting and proved only how important your own wallet is to you.

But if I have more to say about unions, I will say it. If you choose to reply, then don't blame me.

By posting "go argue with somebody else" indicated I was "superior" to you or was attempting to "restrict" to whom you reply to? How you twisted "go argue with somebody else" into anything else other than I didn't desire to get into a argument with you is beyond me. You must have been sitting at the keyboard for a couple of day's just waiting. It would seem to me that you could have picked a better place to jump in, you are looking pretty foolish imo

This is going to be one of your better tantrums, I can see it coming. Tell ya what Budd, let's see if I was correct and you do run true to form.

Here is where you are insulted.

And I'm insulting?

Here's where ya blame somebody or something. You decided where and for who you wanted to work. Maybe they thought you couldn't cut it.

Here we we go about you health. Although you are too self centered and absorbed to notice, there are others here who have had and continue to have health problems, some I'm sure more serious than yours. Most don't bother to mention them constantly, they just continue on. Hell, you are unaware of my health problems aren't ya?

See the difference between me and you is I live with them as best I can and don't complain about them. Of course rolling a atv sorta brings them to the fore. But it is what it is.

I would hope not.

Sure, all I said was "go argue with somebody else " But you decided to continue.;

I can't believe you posted the above.

One of those notice's will be appearing soon, I'm sure.

I posted "go argue with somebody else" and YOU rerplied!!! Sorta tells me that YOU are looking for a argument. That's okay too. Knock yourself out.

Here ya go. Gotta blame somebody.

Sure I have, and no I have not. If you recall, I was the one who sorta encouraged you to return last time. Remember my remark about the Charger, like magic you showed up. Now we arrive at this point. As I said, disapointing

No, you are a bitter crybaby looking for attention. Now you have it. I'll pay attention to ya through this thread and beyond if ya want.

No Budd, that is another "feel bad for me excuse". So typical

The paragraph below is beautiful. You state that my comments were extremely insulting and then "you" end with a insult

I stand by those comments. So when was the last time you worked?

Budd the above couple of paragraphs are the same bullshit you always post. It is your medication, it is your age, it is your health, it is this, it is that, you are insulted and it goes on and on.

How about this Budd, I'm older than you and I have phyical impairments, and take medication, so that is my excuse. See, now everybody can feel bad for me and are also expected to excuse everything I post.

I suppose I should throw in a few

Damn, blame somebody!!!!!!!!

While I'm at it you have proven me correct. You did everything I said ya would. True to form and so sad.

Remember what got ya to this point: "go argue with somebody else"

Roy

I found it to be demeaning and insulting. I have the right to be insulted and to be offended, ya know.

Simple. You could have been more polite.

Yes, I did read the thread for a couple days to get the gist clear in my mind and to see what direction it was going . . .something some others should do.

Yes, I just responded in kind.

I thought you claimed to understand unions? You don't understand a "closed shop"? Either join the union or else it's either not be hired or lose your job if you are? I was told by the employer I would have to join the union to be allowed to work there and if I refused I was no longer in consideration. Now that's not placing blame, it's stating fact, Roy.

Well, gee, Roy, you better get your memory checked. I was asked about my health problems way back when, and now, if I mention them its only when asked, or some clown like you makes derogatory comments about them since they have been made public.

You apparently think I have no life outside this group. I go fishing as often as possible, I still work on my own vehicles in spite of the pain. And not once have I mentioned the pain, etc. from those activities.

Then quit acting like you know everything about them.

Once again, Roy, where did I force you to reply?

I really don't care if you do or not.

Will it? You read minds now?

Yep, as was my choice. Did I force you to reply to that post?

Nope, just stating a differing opinion.

No, you did choose to reply, just like this toime.

Yes, it is disappointing, but you are part of the reason.

Nope, you're wrong.

No, Roy, I'm stating fact.

What does it matter? Remember, to you I'm just a slob, a loafer, a burden to society, a leech draining away Social Security.

Btw, I stopped working on orders from my doctor, fyi, so stuff it.

Ok, if you reply, I blame you. Feel better?

Let me check . . . no-o-o-o, not angry, not laying on the floor kicking my heels . . . .sorry, no tantrum.

If you reply, I won't be arguing with somebody else. I will be reading another reply from you. You decide, Roy.

Let me get this straight you claim my post "go argue with somebody else" was a indication that I was superior to you and was trying to restrict who you reply to. Now after more warped but convienent thinking you also found that "go argue with somebody else" was "demeaning and insulting"

All I have to say is WOW!!

Although Budd it is you usual MO, gotta have a excuse, any excuse.

That was polite, should I have said "please go argue with somebody else" ? No matter, you needed the excuse. See Budd it fits your pattern.

How do you think I knew that? It is your pattern You were pissed off in the other thread so ya waited to jump in here. I still say ya look pretty foolish but you should be use to that. Try to have some dignity will ya.

LOL ? You have been tying to justify your BS for some time. The pattern is showing. True to form.

You knew exactly what it was but you were so hot to jump in. You are grasping at anything to validate your BS.

Don't ya see it yet Budd you are reaching sooo hard to justify yor remarks it would be laughable were it not so pathetic.

Sure I do the railroad industry is a closed shop. Actually you don't have to join, you pay a reduced fee of some sort. But you do recieve all the benifits and stuff just like you paid dues as a member.

Okay, so you could have worked there but didn't want to join a union. You made a choice and didn't work there. So you live by your choice and went to work elsewhere. Great, good for you. You made your choice, apparantly it was a poor one, but YOU made it. Accept the fact that YOU made the choice and stop blameing a union. But no, your Budd and it is NEVER YOUR FAULT. Some things never change.

The fact is you could have worked there but decided you didn't want to. Stop complaining about it, you made the choice.

Ooops I missed this. In support my wallet? Oh, does this come from the other thread where you advocated union workers take a pay cut? Your damn right I'll bitch about it. Further, I said that if pay cuts were to be asked everybody should give up a percentage, even you.

Oh, I won't killfile you. Others have dealt with you and have sorta backed away given your age and alleged medical condition. I'm older than you and have medical issues too. So, I figure that we are on a even field. You know I won't back away. Gee Budd what was that movie Grouchy Old Men....

I didn't insult your current health. I said that you are continually mentioning it while others just move on. Now you use it as a excuse for you behavior. Be advised that I am going to use all my medical issues and my age as a excuse when dealing with you. Hell, fair is fair, right?

You were asked years ago. Now they have become your mantra and excuse. My comments were about you not your medical condition.

Good, you should get out more.

Never claimed to, just voiced my opinion as you do.

Ya you do. 'Cause you know that it was bullshit.

Not reading minds, just a prediction based on your past history.

Of course not.

Good, and you've read mine in response.

Yup.

Here it is again. Blame somebody! Hell blame me for all your problems real and percieved. But whatever you do NEVER accept any responsibility for your own actions.

Here it is again. Now your medical condition is a excuse. Stop trying to elicit sympathy and take responsibility for what you say and do. I know it must be hard but try.

Constanly.

Why not answer the question??

Those are your words Budd not mine. But I guess to buttress you position you can make believe they are mine. Is that how you see yourself ? Is that why you are so angry and bitter? If so please seek some help, it will do you a world of good.

Stuff it?? How crass of you Budd.

Hell Budd you gotta blame somebody, it is your pattern. Blame me, it matters not.

The word you left out is "Yet". No tantrum yet, it is on it's way though.

You already have it in your head that this is all my fault. That is fine. Where it goes from here depends on if, and what you write. As always if ya want to play, be prepared. Not a threat or anything just the way it is. I've become a grouchy old man. It is the meds and my age. I can screw around for a bit, but snow is on it's way and I'll have to get going. Don't want you to think I'm rude and ignoring you, just the way it is.

Remember "go argue with somebody else"

Roy

Yep.

No, it's truth. You can't handle truth.

If that was polite, you're no Miss Manners.

If I took your opinion of me to the local coffee shop, it would stil cost a $1.75 for a cup of joe. and your opinion means less than that to me.

Whatever, Roy, you've made a decision about me, a wrong decision, but a decision. And like most liberals, you won't change it no matter what. It's called bigotry, btw.

And what are you doing? What are you whining about when it comes to unions to support your BS?

Go ahead and laugh, if you want. You must or you wouldn't mention it.

That's not what I was told in 72 for a job as labor for the N.Y.Central. Now, if you want to believe it fine, if not, fine.

No, Roy, I DID NOT get the choice to work or not. It was cut and dried: union membership=job, no union membership=no job. Got it now?

So, you twist or deny the truth so you can accuse me of blaiming others.

Wrong, Roy, dead wrong.

Well, it looks like you're getting your wish.

What ever. It's your choice.

Or is it you choose to beat me over the head with them just because I mention them?

Take your own advice.

Oh, I am allowed to disagree? (quick, call the paramedics I'm going into arrest!)

Whatever.

Well, don't hold your breath.

Whatever.

I mention a medical fact and you claim it's an excuse? Don't look know but your bias is showing.

If I told you lies, you'd cuss me . . I tell facts, you cuss me. I can't win.

Because it's none of your business and besides, it was posted back when it happened.

No, Roy, that's how you've been treating me with your comments on giving up my pittiance from the government THAT DOESN'T EVEN COVER MY MEDICATIONS, let alone pay any medical bills.

What's the matter? Can't take what you dish out?

And your liberal opinion matters not to me except at election time.

No, still no tantrum

No, it depends on you.

Whatever.

Budd

Good night!

Roy

American Workers Will Live Like Peasants Again because of union busting by their own government.

JAM

Oh, btw, Roy, just one final comment about my health issues.

You keep mentioning my supposed "whining" abut my health. Remember that not a single person in the group had said a thing in that regard until someone, in a fit of hatred, made the claim. All you've done is support that hatred and that bias.

discussion",

Sad, but true.

Okay. I ended it last night, ya had your last. I snipped about the entire thread and said "Good night". But no, that isn't good enough for you. You want to keep on going? Pull those straps tight!

Budd I don't remember anybody mentioning your health in any way other than you. Regardless, I am sick of hearing about it. Useing health issues as a excuse for behavior as you have in this thread is or to elict sympathy is repugnet imo. There is no hatred involved just a opinon.

I gotta get back in the truck Budd, there is a blizzard going on here. I'll be back to play with ya later tonight or sometime Monday if you want to continue. If you decide we continue we might as well use the whole thread, there was a bunch I probably should have replied to but didn't. Up to you.

Roy

For you it's better that a union busts a company and they pack up and move elsewhere. Good plan.

really, fwiw, the world can only live well when there is balance. as far as unions, they give balance to workers rights. as far as management, they give balance to workers wants. they really are a ying and yang to one another. neither proves too successful when the other is too strong.

unions are not dinosaurs. they are not gone. they are just being squeezed by a global economic trend. they will adjust. unions will rise in other nations, in other countries..........as management gets too strong and forgets the relationship that it must maintain with the people that do the labor.

No, just had one last comment.

Then you need to see a doctor about a memory problem, it's either selective or failing.

Otoh, I know and admit my memory is getting worse.

Whatever.

They can in some situations. In others unions have gotten way to big and powerfull and destroyed otherwise good companies. They have hurt industries by subsidizing union contractors such that they can bid below cost to shove out anyone else. Thats just plain wrong and is not benificial to society as a whole.

99% of the time it is not the union that busts up a company, it is almost always either poor planning by the highly paid management or a change in the times. Of course, it appears that the management responsible for the planning or predicting these changing times never seem to want to take the life influencing pay cuts that they try to impose on the workers.

Oh yea, it was always the unions, never greedy corporate execs that made bad decisions.

I don't even think that is legal but since you seem to think that it happens sp often, lets see some examples and don't give me your typical "do the research" crap. You made the claim, now lets see some examples. Funny how you don't seem to complain when big companies like Wallmart and M$ sell below cost or give things away for the very same purpose.

But it happens on both sides. How come you never seem to see that?

well said

If thats the case then you have nothing to whine about when those companies move overseas. Just changing times. Trouble is, the union doesn't seem to flex per those changing times...which does lead to companies being forced to move.