US Auto makers may become extinct, caused by Unions

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TBone wrote:


In many cases unions workers take what they want because they can. They are paid above market value and that is pure greed.

They pay above the unions benifits which is exactly why they have continually voted down joining the union. It benifited the employees because the union lost. Had the union won these people would have been out of a job.
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No, it fits T-Bone's attitudes that the developers / managers of business should not be rewarded according to their efforts.

Actually, I respect Miles highly, but appears from your reply you don't want to see that and admit it.

Probably so. Many unions have no more mission than to take over the management of a mid-sized business so they can control operations and they do it under the guise of supporting employee needs.

Ya know, I'll just bet you've never faced an eviction that would toss you and your family into the street because your union failed to provide strike pay, or had to beg family members for money to feed your children because Welfare didn't, in that time / place, consider being on strike as reason for food stamps. Or watched a union called strike (no rank and file vote taken) force an entire town of 45,000 into an economic depression.
"Pissed off"???? No, it's just that these stupid rants about the "virtues" of unions are outweighed by the fact that they have outlived their usefulness, that they need to be fossilized in the museums with the dinosaur bones since modern laws enforce better employee treatment and wages. But let's not forget the role played by money / dues / benefit grubbing unions in the 10x average inflation of consumer prices since the mid 60's.
There, that should clear up your confusion. If not . . . . then you just might be a deceived union member.
--
Budd Cochran

Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23,
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On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 05:19:25 -0700, "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom SPAM.net> wrote:>

or, you might be ignorant.
your all or nothing sensationalism in your post pretty much points to the latter. you really need too get a grip budd. slow down, relax and look at things with some perspective. nothng is black and white, it is all shades of grey. you really sound like some guy sitting in a bar with a beer in his hand,wearing a windbreaker with the name of the bar on the back of it, yelling and ranting, with no one listening.
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And you could be just plain nosey.

So? If that's what I want to do, what's it to you? Personally, I think you should spend more time minding your own business instead of telling me how I should be. If you don't like me, kill file me.
--
Budd Cochran

Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23,
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On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:10:07 -0700, "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom SPAM.net> wrote:>

that seems to be your mantra lately. i don't kill file anyone budd. i read pretty much everything from everyone. everyone has a good point from time to time.
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Gee, do you think it could because of all the "experts" that think I should be just like them, or at least be the way they think I should be?

Try it, you might like it.

ri-i-i-i-ight . . . .

--
Budd Cochran

Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23,
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agency,
More complete horseshit from you. I have no problem for people being rewarded for their efforts but thre is a point where it goes beyond a reward and into pure greed. I also have a problem when these people screw up and don't take the blame for it and expect others to take the loss for it.

LOL, another claim that you have no possible way of backing up.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving



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ROTFLMBO!!!!!!!! You think every CEO is like Enron's CEO?????? Bhwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!!!!

Gee, look at what the guy that turns down an offer to back up a claim says about another person's OPINION.
Reality check, Tom, OPINIONS do not have to be backed up with proof.
--
Budd Cochran

Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23,
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a
business
and
No, Enrons CEO was a thief and although close, is not the same thing as being outright greedy or pushing the cost of legal bad decisions onto the workers.

There is no need and Max with all his talk hasn't either.

I don't see where you claimed this to be your opinion. It was a general statement that you now admittedly cannot back up.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving



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Guess what, Tom, greed can be illegal, it's the basic emotion behind most crimes of theft.

He doesn't need the assistance and it remains his decison. You claimed the lack of binary posting capacity, so I offered to help and you turned it down. That tells me that you either do not care about your credibility or consider yourself to be superior to everyone else.

I'm sorry, I didn't know I had to write "OPINION BEING STATED" on any posts containing an opinion. Does that apply to you as well? If not, then it doesn't apply to me either.
--
Budd Cochran

Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23,
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up
it.
the
Sorry Budd, but the emotion behind a crime is not a crime itself. If the emotions were a crime, you would have been convicted of my murder MANY times by now <BFG>

and
I never said that he did but he has yet to post anything either and for him, it appears to be much easier.

you turned it

And I appreciate the offer but there would be no point in doing it. Max has never been man enough to admit any type of error, especially to me so what would be the point. At best, he would claim that his different year manual didn't cover what I said and then come up with excuses not to back it up. I have been down this road with him before and know better than to do it again.

Well Budd, the reality of the situation is that Max is your friend so you will assume him to be the correct one, regardless of the facts.

posts
Many in here including myself use IMHO or IMO to declare an opinion. I don't use it that much because many in here don't give a damn about my opinion so I tend to keep my opinions out of my posts but when I do have on and that is all that it is, I do use it so I guess that it does apply to you as well.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving



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Still having trouble reading, Tom? I said it was behind the crimes, I did not mention it being a sin, which, according to the Bible and God's laws, is illegal.

Talk to Him about it.

Let's see, you email it to me and I post it in the group as soon as I download it. . . .that's one ( count 'em!!!) step difference.

Can you spell, "CREDIBILITY"?

To be honest, Tom, admitting an error around you is fraught with danger, since you like to throw them back into discussions and then claim the author never admitted the mistake or you corrupt it in some way to try and make yourself look better.
Btw, Max has admitted to more of his errors than you have to yours. You just launch into a flame fest against the person that catches you in the screw-up. That's not an admission of error.

Gee, Tom, how many of us have "been down that road before" with you? Hmmm?

Really? And who was it that gave you the chance to redeem yourself? Who, Tom? Come on, you can admit it.

Really? Then you need to proof read your own posts more, and by the way, Tom, to you, it matters not if I use those acronyms or not, you still jump all over any opinions I post demanding proof.
--
Budd Cochran

Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23,
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to
beyond
screw
as
most
is
the
claim
And yet, even with one step easier, he has not doen it either.

and
Yep, and it has nothing to do with this.

what
author
Just spin on your part. Your admission of error was nothing more than a desperate attempt to cover. You did not say you were wrong, only that you didn't see something which also shows just how desperate you are to try and prove me wrong about something. Since the ignition module in his vehicle gets its power directly from the ignition switch and not from the ballast resistor, you were still wrong, regardless of what you didn't see.

Really, name 2.

the
LOL, you really don't have a clue. When I'm wrong, I admit to it but just because I do something a different way than the "industry standard" doesn't make me wrong and many of these flame wars as you put them are more based on opinion.

up.
PKB
you
Redeem myself in what way???? The fact that you just said that more than proves my point. I have done nothing wrong (other than disagree with your buddy) and yet you feel that I need to redeem myself, LOL.

Really, show me one time.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving



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I would think that a opinion would have some type of substantiation to have any validity. But that is mo.<G>
Roy

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TBone wrote:

That is very true. Problem is you only see that greed from the corporate owner and not from a union worker. You don't seem to think that unions and their employees are very much greedy as well.
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No, but I have seen a owner trash a airline and screw thousands of workers. Of course he needed a little help, Reagan. End result? Lorenzo was declared incompentent and banned from the airline industry for life by the Feds. But it was too late, the damage was done. Don't believe me? Use yahoo and type Frank Lorenzo. There a horror stories on both sides, it is about time you realized that.

I'm a informed union member.
Roy

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Budd Cochran wrote:

Yep, that pretty much seems like his ideal situation.
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agency,
That would be everybody's ideal situation but human nature would never allow it to happen, even if technology could.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving



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TBone wrote:

The concept of the government being everyones social provider for all their needs is not my ideal situation. So your statement is wrong.
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benefits
Where did I say it always was? In all cases where the fault is poor planning, it is. The workers do not run the company or make the big decisions now, do they? That is the job of the highly paid execs and for that matter, the reason that they are so highly paid. The problem is that when the company runs into trouble due to poor planning, they seldom take any responsibility for it. Much easier to pass the buck on such made up terms as " the global economy".

While true, each case depends on the situation.

You
LOL, I do no such thing. I have no problem with workers making concessions as long as the people responsible make the same ones or perhaps a little more if they are the ones to blame.

Really Miles? I thought that the purpose of a corporation was to provide a service or product and make money doing it but your description shows clearly where your head is.

Not a damn thing if I can't make a living wage working there, what would be the point? The point that you and those like you fail to see is that if the businesses lay off everyone that may buy your product or service, who is going to be left to buy it? Just a quick look at the trade deficit shows the writing on the wall. The people in these other countries cannot afford to buy the products now produced in those countries, they are still bought here. When the pay level of most Americans falls far enough, we won't be able to afford them either and then what are these greedy execs going to do? The answer is nothing because they already have more than enough money and really don't give a fuck. That seems to be the new thing with American businessmen, squeeze the sponge for all it is worth and cast it aside.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving



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