Will high octane really damage my engine?

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As some of you know, I'm a 2001 Dakota owner who is currently stationed overseas. The base just upgraded the gas station, and in their infinite wisdom, now only offer 95 Octane gas. My owner's manual says my engine
could be damaged if I use high octane. Will it really?
If this can indeed damage my engine, I'd like to know how, and if, there's any way (additives?) I'd be able to use this gas. Otherwise, I have to use more expensive options, which may include paying the current $6.50 per gallon, which is what we pay here, with the currently high exchange rate.
Thanks for any advice!
jmc
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N, but it will your wallet. Steve

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"Steve Lusardi" wrote:

That part is really debateable because some modern hi compression engines really need more than 87 to run at their fullest potentail and will run better and get better fuel mileage with it. While maybe they might not all gain, all for my vehicals do especailly in hot weather and even my wife 4cyl 2000 Cherokee runs noticably smooth at speed and picks up 1 or 2 mpg as well when she uses it during the warmer months. Besdie at today prices it is only 4 to 6% for premium and I gain more than that back in performance and MPG in my cars so it is actually cheaper to run premium for me.
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Wow. I always thought it could do damage if you went the other way (putting lower octane gas into an engine requiring high, although today's engines can compensate for it). Years ago, when gas was cheaper (heh, heh. remember when?) I would sometimes put higher octane gas in my car, even though it served no purpose whatsoever in my car. I'm curious to know the answer to your question.

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It is possible BUT not very likely. The higher octane fuel additives MAY not burn off as well and could result in carbon deposit buildup on the heads. Easy solution would be to use some cleaner every few thousand miles to prevent it from occurring.
Oh and thank you. Keep your head down.
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"jmc" < snipped-for-privacy@NOjodiBODY.HOMEus> wrote in message
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wrote:

Or the good Polish tune-up" Never had a car as a youngster that had any danger of caboning up, regardless what was used for fuel!!!

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IIRC, the problem with using high octane fuel stems from the computer. It seems that the longer burn time of higher octane fuel fools the computer into thinking that the engine is running rich and causes it to lean the engine out. Running lean itself is not a particularly good thing for the engine and will be reflected in a loss of power, not to mention heat which could cause detonation, another bad thing for the engine.
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"TBone" wrote:

computer.
This could not be further from the truth and does not warrant further comment.
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So why would you disagree with something that is fact? What do you know that the law of Physics and Electronics doesn't?
SnoMan wrote:

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And those that cannot or do not explain there answers are usually full of shit.
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"TBone" wrote:

full
No, only those that claim thing that are without merit like premium being harmfull. I could go into a long explaination why but you have already made up your mind so it is would be a wasted effort but I would explain why to anyone else that honestly wants to know why.
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First of all, I never claimed it, that would be the manufacturer who I would believe, knows far more about their vehicle than you do. Second, your childish response further proves that you really don't know WTF you are talking about here.
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would
you want some real grins ?
check out his idiotic responses about GM AC in alt.autos.4x4.chevy.trucks " Leprechaun in Suburban AC unit"
and in alt.trucks.ford in "91 f150 towing capacity"
where his claim to his knowledge about the AOD is
" Probaly a lot more familar with transmisson and gear limitations than you think! I actually have a working 83 AOD in the barn right now. (pull from a vehical I junked out)"
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"
Hahahahaha, now that was funny. I think that I believe more in the Leprechaun than in his "gas hammer".

you
a
Unfortunately, RR's news server no longer has most of that thread so I have no idea what he said there but that's just as well since I don't know what AOD stands for either. I am assuming Automatic Over Drive and if that is what it is, how exactly does his having an old trans in his barn make him an expert on them?
--
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SnoMan wrote:

Classic!
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TBone wrote:

Your typical warped logic didn't deserve any explanation. Heres your logic, high octane fuel causes the computer to lean the mixture which causes increased heat which in turn causes detonation (I assume you mean pinging). Somebody really needs to explain why this is warped to you?
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of
What's the matter Miles? Are you still upset? Perhaps you should do a little research before jumping in and making an ass out of yourself. Perhaps if you knew anything about how an engine actually runs and how modern emissions systems actually work you would not be so quick to jump in and attack.

Pretty much, but like I said, if you knew half as much as you think you do, you would see the possibility. To further reduce emissions for areas like California where they are very strict, tighter tolerances are required. Then when you add the exceptionally high cost of fuel, especially premium, it is easy to make the assumption that if a vehicle is not to be used for high performance applications, the engine could and would be designed around the characteristics of regular unleaded. This could include things like fuel delivery rates, valve timing, ignition timing, computer curves based on the fuels rate of burn and anti-knock capabilities .... get the picture yet?????
If the fuel burns slower than the engine and its control computers curves were designed for, the O2 sensor is going to detect a false rich run condition because some of that fuel is going to enter the exhaust unburned. I would think that even you could understand this much. Now unless your engine has variable valve timing, there are really only two ways to deal with this situation, increase the timing and/or cut back the fuel. I would hope that even you could understand this much.
Now, since the fuel curves are based on the properties of regular unleaded AND set up for minimum emissions while giving maximum available power, I think that it would be fairly easy to assume that the timing would always be at or near its maximum setting for any given speed and load. That would leave the computer with the simple choice of reducing the injector pulse width (cutting back the fuel amount) to correct what it sees as a rich condition. The problem is that by doing this, what it has actually done is cause a lean run condition.
I guess that you don't know this but unlike a diesel, a gas engine requires a very specific air / fuel ration to run properly. If you run it lean, it will increase cylinder temps and reduce power. I have read posts in here where people noticed power loss when running high octane fuel in engines where the manufacturer stated not to use it. Why do you think that is "all knowing one"? This lean run condition also makes the fuel charge unstable and combined with the added heat, there is the increased possibility of detonation and pre-ignition, both of which can cause damage to the engine, hence, the manufacturers claims of "possible engine damage". Here is a link explaining detonation and pre-ignition. http://www.hastingsmfg.com/Service%20Tips/detonation_and_preignition.htm Notice the number 1 reason for detonation and the number 4 reason for pre-ignition pretty much follows what I was saying. Then on top of that there is the possibility of the increased cylinder wall temps burning off the protective film of oil causing increased wear, even without any detonation or pre-ignition. You can also look at the wording from the manufacturer. If they were simply saying not top use premium fuels, you could also assume that they were more concerned about the detergents added to that grade damaging fuel injection components rather than confusing the computer but from what I have seen posted, they were instead specifically talking octane ratings which would lead me to believe that they were more concerned about the fuel rate of burn and it confusing the computer rather than detergent damage.
Now, does this guarantee that I am correct, nope. What I am saying is simply based on knowledge of how a modern fuel injected engine operates and what could go wrong as well as the wording of the warning and symptoms reported by posters in this group which is far and away more than anything that you have provided so as they say, put up or shut up.

Yep, so I suggest that you either get started or mind your own business. The sad thing is Miles that you do seem to be a bright guy and we could have some interesting conversations if you didn't resort to turning everything into some sort of personal attack. I'll admit that I was just as bad at one time but I have stopped doing that a while ago. Perhaps if or when you realize that it simply isn't worth the trouble doing that we can get into some interesting discussions and or debates...
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TBone wrote:

lol, geez, me upset? you just posted a frigg'n couple pages of rambling twisting nonsense. Your own reply actually had part of the reason your logic is warped but you discounted it. Higher octane fuel causes modern engines to ping. lol
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Perhaps
And yet, even though you call it nonsense, you were once again unable to disprove any of it. This is really getting to be a habit with you Miles. Instead, you just ramble on making claims that show your complete lack of understanding of the operation of a modern computer controlled fuel injected engine. And yes, if the slower burn rate of a higher octane fuel confuses the computer and causes it to put the engine into a lean run condition (the number 1 cause of detonation in the link I gave you), it in fact can cause it to PING. 93 octane fuel is far from ping proof and it is obvious that you simply didn't understand anything. You did however manage to prove me wrong on one point. I did say that I thought you were a bright guy but after this response....Congratulations.
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TBone wrote:

Read your own rambling 2nd reply again...Especially all those If If If's...ya, IF!! Thats the point TBone. All those If's of yours aren't typical at all. Not even close.
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