Bogus VIN plate on '67 Firebird ragtop?

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The VIN plate on my '67 Firebird convertible is for a coupe, 22337xxxxxxxx, when it should be 22367xxxxxxx. The title is for a convertible. I've had the car for about 25 years now and had it
titled and registered in 3 states before this one, but it hasn't been registered yet in NJ since it's in need of an engine rebuild. (I'm working on it. It's only taken me 15 years to pull the motor out and pull it apart.)
One cop in PA told me during a traffic stop not to worry about the discrepancy because the VIN on the car and registration were only off by one number. I'm wondering if NJ will have a problem with this when I eventually register it, and if so, what I can do about it. Pontiac Historical Services will send me a build sheet and all that, but I need a good VIN or it's useless, right? Is there any other place in the car that would have the VIN? The cowl body info plate is for a convertible, but the VIN isn't on that. The car has been way apart a few times (it was almost a shell when I bought it), and I didn't come across any paperwork hidden anywhere. Body hasn't been off the frame since I've had it.
It would feel better to have the car match the title.
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I'm not sure about 1967 cars, I do know 1968 cars have at least a partial VIN on the cowl plate.
If you have VIN Numbers that do not match the Title, or the car, you have serious Issues.
If the Production numbers do not match between the title and VIN, then you do not have to title to your vehicle. If they do not, your best coarse of action is not a pleasant one. As it involves turning all the info and the vehicle over to your state police.
If they do match. It is possible someone did a convertible conversion on the car. Then someone else put the code on the title out of error. This sort of thing has happened before. It can be a problem to get straightened out.
Charles
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One way to check I believe is this:
If you get a PHS package for the VIN # you know (apparently a coupe) and on there should be the job #/body #/data from the cowl plate. I think 1967 PHS information is a little different than 1968 and up.
'68 and up was more geared for "theft prevention", Pontiac started stamping a hidden VIN # (as Charles stated), started stamping the motor and trans with the VIN (which are done partially for theft prevention) and such. 1967 wasn't like that from what I remember. You'll get essentially a manifest card from PHS on a '67.
You might prove your case if you take your VIN, send it to PHS and see if any data you get from the packet matches the cowl tag. If a body job # or a schedule # matches items on the cowl tag, then something may have been in error at the factory. If the job # on the VIN or other data doesn't match the cowl tag, you have a tag job.
I would say there is enough data on the cowl tag and the VIN packet you'll get to reasonably assert or prove doubt.
If the cowl tag shows a green car with a hardtop and option X, Y, Z built in May of 1967 for instance and the VIN packet contains NONE of those elements, we are likely talking about two different cars.
Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director '80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 27k orig. '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 143k and still going.... '91 S10 Blazer 4.3Z
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It seems to me that the VIN plate on the car is a factory mistake, with one number off, although PHS guy Jim Mattison says he has never seen such a mistake. I just bought the PHS info package on the convertible version of the coupe VIN plate found on the convertible in my garage (one digit off). There was no coupe made with that serial number (last 6 digits of the VIN) that year at that plant, according to PHS. Everything in the PHS packet for the convertible matches what's left in the car, and matches the body tag, which seems to be correct. (I can't conclude much based on the engine and trans info since I bought the car without these.) The original paint, Mayfair Maize, listed on the convertible billing history, is still in the nooks and crannies where the painter didn't reach when the car was repainted red at some point. So I believe I can make a case that the VIN plate is a mispunched item, if the state asks me when I go to get it registered.
Thanks for all the help, guys.
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Bigjfig) wrote in message news:<rt.)

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That gives some credence to the story.
Does the Fisher body job #s on the sheets you got from PHS match the cowl tag? Does the cowl tag state the vehicle is a convertible or hardtop?
You can easily prove it's a mistake if you have documents that cross-check each other. That is one reason why this is done.
Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director '80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 27k orig. '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 143k and still going.... '91 S10 Blazer 4.3Z
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I don't know where to look for a Fisher body job # on either the PHS sheets or the cowl tag. What I got from PHS is a 1967 Car Billing History.

The cowl tag on the car is for a convertible.
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The 1967 PHS documents are a little strange and primitive, but do ANY numbers on either sets of documents match anything on the cowl tag?
The Fisher body job # is usually on the RH side of the cowl tag after the plant code and data stating the Fisher basic model.
Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director '80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 27k orig. '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 143k and still going.... '91 S10 Blazer 4.3Z
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X-No-Archive: Yes
Probably, I had to. Or would have but I had an escape hatch and got the incorrect# titled. Since I don't plan on selling the car it doesn't matter. In your case I'd talk to NJ DMV and find out what they need to correct the digit (process may be on their website) and go that route. HTH, Norm
PH wrote:

-- "The web has got me caught. I'd rather have the blues than what I've got." <via Nat King Cole>
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Several alternatives:
1. Just fill out the paperwork using the correct VIN number and see if they process it without doing a direct "stare and compare" to the VIN as shown on the title you'll be turning in. I know this has been done before :-) :-) If they catch the one digit/character difference, claim it was a typo and revert to #2 below.
2. Fill out and title all the paperwork as per your actual title...no one looks at the actual VIN plate anyway...especially if the 1967 VIN isn't in plain view on the windscreen post.
Just some thoughts...

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In the state of Ohio, they are supposed to. If you title a car in Ohio after it has been titled in a different state, you must have what they call a "State Inspection" Which some car dealers can do, yet the generial public usually goes to the BMV.
Also in Ohio, if you get pulled over for a traffic voilation, some officers will run the VIN number on the car. Especially in high crime area's, no matter whom you are.
Charles
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in
True, but they will run the VIN derived from the vehicle registration...not the stamped plate that has the VIN on it...especially if the VIN isn't readily in plain sight (e.g. on a door jam or under the hood).
Cheers, Bill
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A State Inspection, in Ohio involves a visual inspection of the VIN Plate. No matter where it is located. It also Includes looking at the fenders, hood, & door.
Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a marker lamp out.
This is done to combat auto-theft. Which in the Dayton Ohio area is rampant. Charles
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title...no
car
what
some
crime
Good thing about vehicles registered as antique in NJ is NO inspection.

So if I get stopped driving my 1961 TR3, the cops would have me get out of my vehicle and open the hood so they can check the VIN #? I've been stopped in more than a handful of states and never encountered such a request from the police anytime or anywhere.

Interesting...but certainly not the norm in most other states/locales that I am aware of. Your mileage may vary :-)
Cheers, Bill
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this
digit/character
the
it...especially
Even when coming in from another state?

marker
Depending on the area of the state of Ohio, Yes they will. Far less likely in a small rural town, then in a larger city, with a high auto theft rate.
It has happened to me. It has even happened to Bikers I know.

BTW: the one time I was pulled over in NJ (my brother lives out there), The officer did run my VIN number. Maybe because I was from out of state, driving an older van. Charles
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(SNIP)

VIN
IF the vehicle is being registered as antique then there's no inspection...even if brought in from another state. Technically the vehicle is supposed to be "self-inspected" by the owner.

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Well bikers have plain view VIN plates...not so almost any vehicle built prior to 1968/69. That's when the federal law required VIN number plates to be readable from outside the windshield...most were then affixed to the driver's winshield frame.
Cheers, Bill
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Charles Bendig wrote:

Yet another reason for me to avoid Ohio. My bike ('72 Triumph) has no VIN.
George Patterson If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people he gives it to.
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Charles Bendig wrote:

Here in New Jersey, they run the plate number through the hotlist and check it against the registration card that you carry. George Patterson If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people he gives it to.
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marker
check it

I never Carry my vehicle registration with me. I always leave it at home or in the office at work. I leave nothing in my cars to tell a thief where I live.
In Ohio it is common for thief's to switch license plates every few hours on a stolen car. If they did not run the VIN they would not catch many of them. Charles
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Charles Bendig wrote:

You are required by law to carry it in New Jersey. I keep mine in my wallet. If you are stopped, you will have to produce license, registration, and insurance card. Failure to produce any of them on demand will set you back $100 or so. You will also have to show up in court to prove that you actually do have the documents. If you didn't produce one because you don't have one, it gets *real* expensive.
George Patterson If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people he gives it to.
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thief
If you do NOT have the vehicle registration with you in NJ and a cop stops you, the fine is $150+ for failure to produce vehicle documentation.
Cheers, Bill
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