freon +134a

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hi all
I was about 8 ounces low on freon in my 91formula.
next to where the mech was working i saw a few ol cans of 134a and can't help but wonder 2 things

if he put 134a into my system
are these gases compatable at all ie can they be mixed like that??
my guess would be a big no what would be the symptom if they did mix the gas?
thanks
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Prob...and if he did, and didnt change the oil, and put the correct, non 1.4 inch shcrader valves on for 134a, he broke a big time federal law.

Nope, and the oils DO NOT MIX either, and and there is your big problem. See..in an AC system, the oil is picked up, and carried around by the refrigerant, in this case, R12...when R134A is added to an R12 system the refrigerant will not pick the mineral oil up, and lube the compressor correctly, and since, you have one of the worst compressors for wear..well..guess whats happening?

Depends...8 oz low...you now have an illegal blend in the car, thats going to cause premature compressor wear..and if there were TWO cans there, you now have 24OZ of 134a in there..or 1lb, 8oz of 134a..since IIRC, that system only holds 2.1lbs, of R12, over half your refrigerant is wrong. Also, when retrofitting (stupid as hell with the R12 replacements out there) with 134a, you have to compensate for the metering that is designed for 12...and increased head pressures....so you only use aprox 80% of the total R12 charge.. So.. IF you have 1.5lbs of 134a in there, you are undercharged. UNLESS he added it to the charge that wsa there, and in that case, you are overcharged...and illegal.
Find out...and if you are in my area, let me know..hell..for less than he charged you for that, I can make it right for you with a R12 replacement that works as well, if not better than 12, and is legal and approved. Been running it in my 92 for several years..and actually...still have access to R12 in the cans...and NO, I wont sell it direct to anyone without a legal, valid EPA card.

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<snip>

CB, what replacement is that? Freeze 12? I haven't checked pressures yet but I'm pretty sure that I'm low on freon. the A/C cools but not as well as it should. It was last serviced, about 3 years ago and it worked. Then I started my whole supercharger fiasco and ran the car intermittantly for 2 years until recently when I got everything back together and working. The shop I used to work at would allow me to charge the system without having to pay for an A/C service charge and labor so I dont' have that option anymore. I guess I could just pay for someone to do it....
Bruce 89 Firebird still R12.
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Just the equipment to recycle the gasses is a pretty fair investment for a shop. Then there are licenses and EPA regs to deal with. Then there is the time and materials. Now you gripe cause the old shop you used to work at won't let you in to use their tools, licenses, and shop space and time? If you are in CBHVACS neck of the woods take him up on his offer, it's the best you will get. In the meantime, quit whining.
Bruce Chang wrote:

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Hmm.. I thought everything they got was free and therefore they were obligated to let me use it for free and never have to charge me a dime. If you'd like to add something positive, go ahead. In the meantime, stay quiet.
They won't let me use their equipment cause they closed, not because they don't like me.
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No..I tried that and its good only in a stationary type of unit..like a freezer..
I use R416a.

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On 2 Jul 2003 11:01:33 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (David McNally) wrote:

Wow 1,000 vessels. I'm impressed that someone would actually keep that much refrigerant around without disposing of it or putting it back in the chiller it came out of. Of course it is a complete waste of space if your friend is using it as a holding tank for later removal. It's pretty expensive to dispose of 800 lbs of refrigerant each, no matter what kind it is.
I hope that they have all the refrigerant status reports and sales reciepts that go with those vessels.
...Ron -- 68' RS Camaro 88' Formula Bird
Some are wise and some are otherwise
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Actually they are storing the containers in the shop as the do maintenance on the chillers.
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FBR rambled on about something in

While I'm sure there was a cutoff date, I don't think it's that early. The 87 is, IMO, most likely a conversion...
NOI
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1987 was R12. The "cutoff" date is around 1993 or so, depending on vehicle and make.
My mother's 1993 Saturn is R12. Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director '80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 26k orig. '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 141k and still going.... '80 T/A project car...
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Bigjfig rambled on about something in

Thanks, Joe. I thought it was a lot later than 87. Guess I was right. Who'd a thunk it? <shrug> <G>
NOI
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Honestly, I was told it was 94. That was one of the main reasons I did not buy a 93 Z a year or so ago. -- 98 Camaro

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1987, originally was R-12. Cut off date? Last R12 units rolled in 1993. Most of GMs line, not all, but most, went 134a in 93. EVERYONE went 134a in 94.
Your buddies 87, will cool much better with R12..but glad to hear hes happy with the 134a converson..
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CBHvac wrote:

Thanks for the info. I'm curious, why would it cool better with R-12? Been in both cars and I can't tell a difference temp wise, both can get cold as heck. Another question, if his was converted, shouldn't there be a sticker somewhere showing that? Also, my 84 has never been serviced AC wise (owned it since new). When I swapped engines I was just carefull to lay everything out of the way without stressing the lines etc. Should I have it serviced it to replace the old oil in the system? Sorry if this is a stupid question but I had never really thought about it until I started reading this thread.
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R12 is simply a better refrigerant than R134a and the vehicle was designed for R12.
The reason why the conversion went better than others is because the Firebird line has a pretty large condenser and that helps with cooling ability---even on a R134A conversion.
I believe the R12 if measured with a good thermometer in the vehicle compartment would be colder by a few degrees :).
If the system works, leave it alone :). Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director '80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 26k orig. '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 141k and still going.... '80 T/A project car...
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condenser coil. I am very pleased with it and I am sure it is colder now than when it was new. Before, it never did get as cold as the a/c in my '00 Camaro, but now it does.
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On 03 Jul 2003 13:16:41 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Big Dav160) wrote:

I figured as much. My company uses this size vessel and larger but only to be used on site to transfer the refrigerant for repairs to equiptment.
...Ron -- 68' RS Camaro 88' Formula Bird
Some are wise and some are otherwise
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CBHvac rambled on about something in

Funny part? I'm not in your biz, and I knew that.

Like the clowns that occasionally wander thru here posting about the wonderful uses of propane? <G>
/me ducks NOI
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Actually, I thought I was providing some of the answers. :)
There seems to be much confusion on the subject.
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Big Dav160 rambled on about something in

Yeah <Shrug>
Guess I'll peruse another thread...or hunt a spammer. <G>
NOI
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