GM Working On A 'Mustang Competitor'!!

Page 14 of 16  
lmao.
Don Manning
puked:


Mustang?
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hey!
A Gumshoe that has a sense of humor?
What gives?
LOL
Refinish King
puked:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Somebody has to right?
It would have been funnier if you had called me a dick instead of a gumshoe.
Don Manning
puked:

--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
But that would have been derogatory:
Plus might have been taken literally?
Only you and your proctologist can answer that one though?
LOL
Refinish King
puked:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
puked:

the
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I know what you do:
So it would have been funny also, but to most in this group, who don't know what you do. It would have been construed as a derogatory remark and the beginning of a flame war with others.
Something I believe we wouldn't want, with our humorous relationship.
Sincerely,
Refinish King
puked:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
puked:

of
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I know what you mean there!
My children are the most important thing to me, the rest of the world can burn. But my children are what I would save above all else.
Refinish King PS The nicest word I'm ever called: "Dad"
puked:

5/22/2004
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Translation: Attempts at appearing moral are taking a toll on me.

Translation: CJ hasn't yet emailed copies of my posts to them.

Translation: Butt I'd rather be posting about asses and shit and stuff instead of taking the kids to dinner.

Translation: I don't wear underwear to Boy Scout troop meetings.
CobraJet
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

car
offensive.
over
money
out
I have heard that argument used before with the Mustang and Capri. They turned the Capri into a nasty turd of a vehicle. Be glad they didn't do that with either of the F-Bodies.
Off topic...another one that pissed me off was Pontiac's lame re-invention of the LeMans. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Don Manning
not just the mustang. It's

Firebird,
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
news:Cjywc.4793$9%

again.
that
You are so right. Really, Lemans and Tempest are both great names for cars, and the cars were so incredibly stylish. It's a pity nobody at Pontiac wants to build anything but rental cars. The next "LeMans" will probably be a minivan, or worse.
I agree, Camaro/Firebird engineering and sales was at times a very constructive rivalry. I don't think there was anything really bad about it. Sure they competed with each other, but they were built on the same assembly lines, so the economy of scale wasn't harmed. The styling was always distinctive (not so the Capri), so they surely pulled in more customers than the Camaro alone would have.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
But you are comparing shit:
To Shinola!
LOL
Refinish King

hell
have
will
Firebird
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

As opposed to comparing Chevy to Shinoda?! :)
--
Scott W.
'66 Mustang HCS
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Cylon,
I know the loaded T/As and SS Z/28s had gotten pricey, but a plain Z/28 could be had for pretty cheap - lower $20Ks (USD). I was even looking at a 1-LE Z/28 back in '98 and could of had it for about $24K, so I don't think price was the reason the F-bodies had poor sales. I think the thing that killed the Camaro/Firebird was its body layout. Let me explain... and I'm not looking to offend you AACF guys... this is coming from someone who really, really, really wanted to love the last generation F-bodies, but couldn't.
First, here's what tugged at me to buy an F-body:
1) LS1 V8 2) 6-speed trans 3) 305 HP 3) Rear panhard rod 4) 290 RWHP 5) 158 mph top end
And here's what kept me out of an F-body:
1) The long rakish windshield 2) The windshield header that felt like I had to keep ducking under it to see forward 3) The catalytic convertor hump on the passenger side floorboard 4) The V-8 models on the lots seemed to always have T-Tops 5) The driving around in a bathtub feeling
I think if you ask anyone who shied away from buying a F-body will list many of these same reasons, and so will any Mustang owner.
Again, not trying to offend, just being frank.
Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 4 Jun 2004 21:07:56 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Patrick) wrote:

Personally I think a whole avalanche of things piled up to ensure the demise of the Camaro/Firebird. A quick rundown of some of them:
Escalating sticker price. In 1993, with the intro of the 4th gens, the base sticker price of a Z28 was only 16k. (Figure it would sticker at 19k or so, well-equipped.) In 1995, I bought a medium-optioned Z28 (not stripped but not loaded), which stickered at 22k. By 2000-2001, a medium-optioned Z28 was up to 24k-25k (sticker). I don't recall the Mustang pricing history, but i'm pretty sure the constantly-improving GT's stayed well under the 25k barrier even loaded. And it got harder and harder to find Z28s without costly options like T-tops, which are nice to have, but not economical. Frankly, 25k was more $$$ than much of the dwindling "target market" for these cars could afford. Especially considering the insurance rates on these cars.
Speaking of "target market", another problem for the ponycar segment was shifting demographics. Children born in the late 70s and 80s were mostly drawn to imports, rather than these traditional American cars. I'm 33 now, and almost no one my age or younger that I knew, seemed to want an American ponycar. Young people seemed to believe the myth that the Camaro was only good for straight line speed, and had no handling or brakes. Not to mention the poor reputation for quality. So we lost a whole generation of potential buyers to the imports.
Plus, the introduction of the expensive "SS" model made the mainstream Z28 trim level seem like a less desirable performance package (in fact, ride & handling on the Z28s got softer...my '95 handled better than my '00 despite the '00 being lighter). The SS suspension and wheels should have been a minimal-cost upgrade available on the Z28.
Another factor is that GM made no significant effort to refresh the generation over it's 9 year lifespan. The 1998 changes changed the nose & hood a bit, and the interior a bit, but frankly those changes didn't seem like much of an improvement to me. No one looked at a 1998 Camaro and thought it was really a "new" generation.
The LS1 motor, introduced to the F-body line in 1998, is a nice motor, more powerful and smoother than the LT1, but honestly I think the LT1 "test drove" better. The LT1 had a strong launch right from idle, you could really make the car scoot without feeling like you were abusing it. The LS1 takes more revs to get into the torque, and feels more like a typical family car engine, until you really floor it. The LT1 was loud, nasty and made the car seem even faster than it actually was. The LS1 was the opposite--fast, but too sterile-feeling.
Finally, there are things like selection and availability. Dealers stocked fewer and fewer F-bodies on their lots, which made it hard to actually find them in the colors and option configurations buyers wanted. Poor selection guarantees poor sales.
And when it comes to simple things like color choices; I dunno who specced the colors available on the Camaro, but they did a horrible job IMHO, too subdued for a sporty car. The Camaro never had a bright medium red metallic like Ford, the Camaro red metallics were either too dark (maroon), or too orange. There was no Yellow. White, Silver and Black were fine, but no one's going to get excited about those colors. The Navy Blue Metallic was OK but really a shade too dark to be perfect. Polo Green was OK but was also a shade too dark. Mystic Teal was a neat color but very rare. The Purple color made me want to puke. The Gold and Orange colors were an attempt to appeal to traditionalists, but IMHO those colors were ugly in the '70s and still ugly now.
Things like the steeply raked windshield & floor hump, really didn't bother me. Although passengers seem really irritated by the hump, I never sit on that side of the car anyway! The visibility is crummy to the rear, but I quickly got over the "bathtub" feeling. But I do remember it was intimidating on my first test drive.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
zmike6 wrote:

<snip>
<snip>
I think between the both of you guys you pretty much nailed it why the F eventually bit the dust. The irony is the last of them were pretty much the fastest and most "hard core" ever, which killed them. Unfortunately for every one of "me" (WS6, 6 speed, and a general willingness to go broke to own one) there's five of "them" (6 cylinder base models) and the base models kinda sucked.... if you could find one on a lot. The one dealer in the Winnipeg area that had one on the lot was the dealer we bought from, and we bought from them because the wife bought from them in the past and was happy with their service - the 'hawk in the showroom was a plus, but a lack of dealer stock pretty much kills any negotiating on the price.
One other thought - the bigger the chicken, the more firebirds they sold. Maybe they shoulda put the chicken back on the hood. ;)
Ray
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

car
offensive.
over
hell
have
Mustang owner...and former Firebird owner. I love a really clean older IROC or RS. Never really like the newer F Bodies that much. The ones that I did like though were the SS's and the 4 eyed Camaro's. Plain, sleek, no frills...like my dad's old 69 SS.
Don Manning

--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Sometimes Trans Am sales were so bad that I wondered how they could go on. They just about didn't make any from 1990 to 1992. I have never been able to figure out how sales could be that bad.
I agree that Camaro/Firebird pricing was higher than Mustang, but it looked like more car. My question was how did they ever manage to cram such a tiny interior into such a big heavy car? Does anybody know? Another problem GM had forever, at least during my formative years, is they'd offer a good transmission, but only with the wimpy engine. Later, they'd offer a better engine, but only with an automatic, because the T-5 wouldn't take it. Then they'd detune it to be sure it wouldn't keep up with a Corvette. It seems to me that when the Camaro and Firebird really got good drivetrains, like say an LT-1 six-speed, they were finally a bargain. But it was apparently too late. The cars got to the point they weren't embarrassing, and GM killed them anyway.

hell
have
will
Firebird
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Road & Track did a comparison between the new GTO and the Mustang Cobra this month, and it's worth a look. Bottom line was the Cobra was more of a muscle car, but the GTO was more civilized. When the points were added up, the GTO came out ahead.
Too bad it's not an American car (no, I'm not starting that whole angle). GM needs to consider making a nasty little rattle trap that's cheap and hauls ass like the Cobra. Maybe that new Buick? -- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
lab~rat wrote:

yo labrat--good to see ya here at the mustang NG! :)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.