Heavy duty "stock" SBC starter?

Specify a starter for a '97 Chev truck. This will get you the much more robust, stronger, lighter, lower-draw, more heat-resistant gear reduction starter.

i don't race a Chev, I race a 1600cc Ford - but we use the same basic race starter as the race starters sold for the V-8's. I have gone to the Nippondenso style from the Hitachi (Tilton) style since they seem more immune to vibration.

This thing will get the job done for you, $135US.

Brian

Most parts stores will offer a "Heavy-Duty" starter for any second gen V8 car. GM put high torque starters on 70-73 Camaro's, pick up and vans all the way up till the 90's. As well as some B-body cars.

The best thing to do is to find a starter rebuilder local to you. Call and ask them for a "High Torque" starter for a SBC.

Not all 305's will accept both starter cone styles. If your does, be happy. If not a competent rebuilder can adapt a 305 style cone to a "High Torque" starter.

Also beware of cheep "racing" or "Mini-Starters". I have seen a good number of them that are made from a Japanese car starter. What they do there is to make a bolt plate with the starter motor on one side, and the gear on the other. These starters are not high torque units, and where never intended to turn over something like a heat soaked V8.

I would also recommend you ditch the welding cable, go with actual battery cable in that gauge. This is an issue that has been debated in a few forms of motor sports. Charles

Inquiring minds need to know - if both cables are copper cable of the same gauge, what makes one preferred over the other - number and gauge of stands that make up the cable, copper alloy used, insulation used or ?

Battery cable has lots of small strands as opposed to fewer large guage in welding cables. (I suppose it depends upon what he has actually bought). I have used welding cable on our 74 Torino without any problems, but it was

25mm square with lots of fine strands.

Welding Cables use fine strands of wire. They are intended for Ultra high current loads. These cables are intended for ARC welders. They are used between the welder body and the welding gun. Which may have to be rather long, especially when welding parts of a building together.

Battery Cables have much larger stands of wire. They are intended for Automotive (including Semi Trucks) style of current draws. Which are no where near that of a Welder.

If you want more info on this issue, it should all be online, in a searchable format. Charles

My '78 Camaro always suffered from hot start problems. The Battery in the boot never helped, but I have seen articles about adding a remote Solenoid in parallel to assist with this problem. Not sure where though (in old mags).

I have noticed though that my '95 Camaro starter and battery are both much smaller than my older ones, and the seem to cope ok. I Think headers exascerbate the problems though.

HTH

When I had a 305 in my '78 I could get 30 mpg(english) cruising at 90mph no problem. This was with stock cam, headers, 2plane manifold and Holley

4Brl. Rear end was stock 2.73

did some searching on acdelco.com

323-255 is most 70's 350's. (and big blocks) (seems the 305's may have a less powerful starter? (forget the pn)) depending on what type of chevy (suburban, 2wd, 3/4 ton etc...) I get either: 323-1064 or 323-485 for part numbers.

unfortunately the website doesn't go into detail of the torque of each type - and I don't want to assume that more $ = better...

I'm going to ask for a 97 3/4 ton 4x4 350 starter. Thanks! :)

Ray

I butchered that part of the post - I blew up the 305 and went to a 350. Had to reuse the starter because the 350 had the small flywheel and I have an automatic and a large flexplate. The 350 has both types of bolt patterns.

Ray

Yes, welding cables are made of copper stranded strands, while battery cables are usually made out of copper strands. This is for the considerable flexibility and fracture resistance benefits of compound stranding only. The current capacity is determined *purely* by the gauge.

No, there would be NO measurable significant distance in the resistance of equal lengths of the two types of cable, of the same gauge. Your suggestion that there are different "styles" of current draw, or that cables "designed for high current draw" won't work in applications that experience "lower styles of current draw" is flatly incorrect, and so is your assertion regarding relative currents in arc welders and in automobile electrical circuits.

The current through a pair of automobile battery cables can easily reach several hundred amps -- higher than the range of any arc welders most people have occasion to see -- when cranking the engine under high-demand situations (e.g. cold weather).

DS

Charles is badly misinformed or perhaps deluded. There is *zero* reason not to use welding cable as battery cable. Gauge size for gauge size, current capacity is practically identical (difference so tiny it takes extremely precise instrumentation to measure it), welding cable is more flexible over a wider range of temperatures, welding cable is more resistant to internal breakage, welding cable is frequently better insulated -- all due to welding cable's much harsher working environment than automotive battery cable. Welding cable gets handled, sparks and hot bits of molten metal dropped on it, stuff dropped on it, pulled, stretched, kinked, knotted, etc, EVERY day. Battery cables get installed and then practically never touched again until the battery is next replaced.

DS

My understanding is that battery cables have few strands because it's cheaper and does not need the ability to flex on a frequent basis. Cables that have fine strands of wire, are used because they have the ability to flex and without failing under constant flexing. If you're a welder, you want the ability to articulate your hand and welding device at any angle and not have to fight the cable to get there. I can't understand why a stranded cable and a solid cable would have any difference in carrying DC current.

-Bruce

Stock manifolds (rules.) From what I read, the remote solenoid won't help because that's when you turn the key and no click. My problem is when it's hot it just doesn't turn over very fast and ends up killing the battery and a starter that you can't touch because it's almost redhot from trying to turn the motor over.

I'm picking up a truck starter tonight after work. I suspect a combo of a fresh rebuilt HD (truck) stock starter I should be fine - it's a stock engine (under 9.5:1 compression, under .450 lift cam) but it runs at pretty much full throttle for almost 2 hours and gets a bit warm...

As fer welding cable/battery cable - I bought the car with the cabling done - it was like new with good ends... It's BIG (maybe even 1ga?) and I _think_ it's welding cable - but I think that is the least of my worries - it's well attached at both ends (of both the + and -) and it is bigger than any stock battery cable I've ever seen by far. Before I melted down the 305 it spun it over pretty good.

Ray

You haven't looked down inside a Cup car, or a Grand Am Prototype lately, then - since they very often use Japanese mini starters put together by Tilton or the like - based on a Hitachi starter motor. Although I like the Nippondenso better for my application, I know for a fact that those "cheep" Japanese starter motors have won the 24 hours of Daytona more than once. Mind you, Tilton does a very nice tune-up n them before they sell them with their sticker on the side.

Brian

Skin effect. The current flows mainly in the outer diameter of a cable.

Also 2 cables can flow more current than 1 cable with twice the cross sectional area.

Skin effect is only on high frequency AC applications.

Hmm.. Physics in the US must be different from the phyics in the UK.

And the reason they don't use welding cable for car batteries? I'd be willing to bet it's $$$$. Last time I checked, welding cable was about $1 per foot (or more for the really big stuff.) That doesn't include ends...

Ray

This would tend to support the idea of using welding cable (stranded-strand construction) instead of nominal battery cables (stranded construction) if, in the range of lengths and gauge sizes used in automotive cables, the effect were significant or even practicably measurable. It is neither, though.