New GTO To Soldier On

Note: Crossposted. Let's keep it civil, guys/girls!
News on the Mustang's only true competitor.

--
JASON STEIN | Automotive News
Posted Date: 11/22/04
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Patrick wrote:

How 'bout the fact that the new GTO, while having impressive specs., lacks anything that can be remotely construed as edgy design. The 2005 GTO has a few changes that enhance it a bit, but damn if it's missing that aggressive edge that all (not just Pontiac) 70's muscle cars had.
I'd be more inclined to purchase a the Ford remake of the GT40 before I got an '04 (or '05) GTO.
I'm curious to see what power plant Ford cooks up to offset the LS2.
    Martin     '01 Formula -    MTI Air Box Lid, K&N Filter, Hurst-6,             SLP Cold Air Induction & Smooth Intake Bellow             Corsa Catback w/Premium Tips     '83 V45 Magna
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Interesting comments and I agree with most of them especially the dealer attitude. When it was first introduced I asked the dealer in Long Beach, CA when would he be receiving them. The response "Give me a $500 deposit and I'll call you when one comes in and you can look at it but not drive it" That dealer today has about 6 in inventory. If I ever decided to buy one, it wouldn't be from him.

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no, you can get a retro 67 mustang lol...thats what the new body is based on, but now on the pressing pontiac issues at hand
look at what they have done with what is going to become the 06 Solstice, its about 20 grand, and its got the edgy look to it, although they built it with parts from the GM parts bin
Also, take into consideration who built the concept. Bob Lutz, who did wonders for Dodge when he designed the orig. 1st generation Viper....look at how it has done since!
Now, about the GTO, we all have to remeber that this is an aging Australian car that was adapted for the US, and was ment to do nothing more than get the ball rolling.
This prototype, the Buick Velite: (see it at this site http://www.auto-report.net/index.html?BuickVelite.html ) has been touted as the basis for the GTO's 2nd generation models. Right now, this is only a rumor, but I believe that they will end up with this Zeta platformed car, or a variant of it.
Thats something I really dislike, the ending of the LETTER CARS...granted, they use greek letters, but still, the F BODY CARS WILL ALWAYS RULE!
just my $6.72 (heh) Jason
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Jason Sobol wrote:

All true.
I've been waiting for the Solstice since the concept came out two years ago. Sadly, I will never fit in it.
The Buick is a definite winner in my book; but, it's a Buick. GM is too damn lazy to come up with something original for Pontiac. No no....let's just rebadge our shit. No one will notice.....right?
Speaking of rebadging....any ever notice how the Jaguar S looks an awful lot like a Ford Contour? <chuckle>
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The Velite is, as of right now, a CONCEPT, not in production that I know of
they have talked of that body style for the next gen GTO, from what I heard, Buick isnt going to produce the car.
J
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Having seen photos in HPP of the 06 Solstice, it would have been a fine replacement for the FIREBIRD! Its got the long hood, short deck of the original. Forget about the Formual/Trans Am, why not go back to past. Perfect, no Chevy counter part, clean paper and a name everyone know.
How about that Pontiac, here's an idea for free, just slap the badge on. But, please, make an optional Ram Air hood and tac?
Just don't let Mr. Bandit near it.
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You sound like the sort of asshole who goes to the Trans Am Nationals. The sort who should not be allowed to even own a F-car.
Go a head crack on Bandit edition cars. Pontiac approached Mr.Bandit, promised him a new one every year too. Those old Second gen 400/4 speed T/A's with a hard top will take 50 times the abuse of a 4th gen with sub frame connectors and $20,000 in after market parts. Guess what They will also go in rain or snow with out putting you in the ditch.
The whole Firebird line was a shame once the Trans Am badge came out. If Pontiac would have concentrated on making the Trans Am a SCCA showroom stock racer,and left Chevrolet to beat up on the drag strips with the Camaro, more cars would have been sold from the start.
You can't have a TransAm with out a Camaro. Just like GM is finding out about the GTO. With out the baddest of the bad on the same chassis, a GTO is a lame car. Put a bare bones chevelle out that will turn 12.01 stock and make the GTO a refined version with a more subtle torque range, plusher seats, and a 12.30 et and they will sell 3 times the units per year.
Yet such is lost on idiotic Pontiac only people.. Charles I would rather have a 64 Malibu SS with a 327 then a 64 GTO with a 389.
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Charles:
I do not believe much of anything is made in the USA on that vehicle. Some of the design may have come from here, but that's it.
As for a Chevelle over a GTO, etc, I would prefer the GTO, because:
1) Chevy engines are great. They are also common as dog shit, and you can step into them wherever you go. Not so on a Pontiac engine.
2) Less exists on Pontiac engines, so they are more of a challenge to get right.
3) Either car is nice, but the Pontiac is more upscale in my belief. There's an old '65 (I believe) GTO in a driveway up the block from me, it needs everything but maybe I'll get it for free by asking one day. LOL :).
4) A Pontiac engine will last as long as a Chevy V8. Most GM V8s are excellent. Notable letdowns are the Buick and Cadillac engines with the integral drive distributor/oil pump set up. Very poor design and prone to oil related failures.
5) In '79, while a Camaro was nice, Pontiac lead the charge with the Trans Am. The W72 T/A that year has over 40 ponies more, rear disc brakes, lots of flair and special editions, and actually is more of a "modern" (at that time) muscle car while the Camaro just labored along. Chevy dropped the Z28 for a few years and then made it a sticker package when it came back for a while, while Pontiac kept the torch lit through all the dark days.
One reason among many while I will always own and respect those old Ponchos :) Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director '80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 27k orig. '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 143k and still going....
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wrote:

The reason I did not buy an SS 'maro, TA, or GTO over the last four years is because of GM dealers.
I bought a Bullitt stang because I dug the whole retro thing and loved the movie. While I was waiting for the Bullitt to arrive after all the delays I went to a Chevy place in Denton, Texas and they would not let me drive one because it was 20 min. til they closed. I told them straight up I would just wait for the Bullitt after that, I told them I had cash in hand and left pretty angry. They called me for several days trying to get me back and saying they were sorry...I told them forget it. Hell, I got the Ford guys to knock a bunch of money off the Bullitt before it came in and they knocked more off when they got the HP info and how it would be reduced from the ads, they also let me drive anything on the lot. 20 mins til close anit that late...especially when they have a LARGE sales force...Im sure somebody wanted to make money that night...maybe not.
I had to sell the Bullitt because we were buying a house and my wife was in panic over bills...I broke even on it and told her I would be buying a new car ASAP and she was cool with it.
I went to a dealer in Lewisville, Texas and told them I wanted to drive an SS...was interested in the anniversery one. They would not let me drive it without a deposit and they had it marked up. I left.
Went to a Pontiac place, the yellow TA anny car was also marked up and they would not come off sticker on any TA because they were going to be the "last ones."
I held off on a new car and bought another old one...
Along comes the GTO...every dealer I came across in north Texas marked them up and were horrid to deal with. The big shot one that sells most of the GTO's in Dallas would sell it for sticker...big deal.
I bought an 04 Mach 1 for less than my Bullitt. Comp Orange stick car.
I got a wild hair and called about a GTO again almost six months later because a buddy of mine wanted to buy my Mach...I was going to lose about a grand over it but I still kind of wanted a GTO. The place that would sell them for sticker would still do it and everyone else would match that or still had a mark up...I blew it off.
All of a sudden a couple of months ago I get calls left and right from dealers trying to get me to buy a marked down GTO...sorry guys, no way.
I will stick with the Mach for now.
I could buy a Cobra and get a good deal I am sure when they return...or any special Mustang. The Ford dealers have all worked with me...the GM guys have mark ups and have treated me badly over the years. They drove me away.
Funny thing, one of the Chevy places has STI's, and I wanted to drive one around the time I was thinking of selling the Mach...gee, they would not let me drive it without money down. I went across the street, got in a Evo and drove it right by the sales manager and salesman at the Chevy place. They tried to call me for several days after that but I would not answer the phone. Messages said "hey, we see you are serious, come on back." Yeah, right.
Dodge guys were cool to me also...and one of the places has the same family name as the worst Chevy/Suburu place I have ever gone to...drove a STR 4 and one of those Viper tucks (way out of my range and the sales guys took me out in it just for fun).
BTW, I did not care for the EVO.
GM needs to get its dealers under control in one of the nations largest car markets...pure and simple.
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CA
and
one,
I have to agree with your impressions of GM dealers. I had been bringing my Firebird to a dealer in Santa Rosa CA, and got the hard sell about the GTOs as well. They went as far as to imply that my Firebird was a substandard POS, but the GTO hey, that's the BMW killer! Anywho, it was one of those "we'll only have a few on the lot, but we've got them on backorder already." Basically, if I even thought of buying one, I needed to put that precious deposit down to secure my one shot at it. ahem It's almost like they're saying, "buy it now, or you'll never drive one off our lot" It was the same thing with the puke yellow millenium Firebird.
~w~
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On the 2002 yellow TA. There are no more and Pontiac had no extra parts to build more. So a mark-up was expected. Had one on the lot in Central PA stickered at $ 35. Sales person told me they got let it go for $ 38.
Now on the GTO, stopped off last weekend just to look at it. This was the first time, had two sales people rush out of the office to ask if they could help. "Get it now, we can work with you." My response "I'll wait until they come out with a hoot scoop" They left me alone after that.
But, it is a small car in real life. Though it was about the size of a Grand Am from all the press coverage.
But, small car, big motor. That's what keeps the hot rods going. Just hope Pontica get's the message and turns this around. The 78 Trans Am sold over 100K units on flash, flairs and decals. Plain jelly beans are in?????
I drive when the sun shines a 95 Trans Am with the uplift spoiler. It turns heads and give's you that little uplift inside. Don't think you'll get that with the 04 GTO.
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So long as it doesn't say "Made in USA" on the door jamb, or more aptly, "Manufactured by General Motors Corporation USA", you will not see one in my driveway. Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director '80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 27k orig. '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 143k and still going....
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Correct me if I am mistaken, Joe. Isn't the GTO Powertrain, engine accessiors, seats, & air bags made in the USA?
The body is a Aussie Unit. Hell them lucky S.O.B.'s have a Elky called a UTE SS. Part Car, Part Truck, with a LS1, a 6 Speed, and a Solid live axle. Sound like a winning GM combo from the past or what?
Besides the fact I know a few aussies. I would rather buy stuff made in the land down under, then I would tiawan, china, japan, korea, isreal, russia, or the middle east. Atleast the aussies have a clue about quality control. Charles
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When they cancelled the Camaro and Firebird, how did those sales numbers compare with the GTO? :) -Rich
On 22 Nov 2004 07:25:52 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Patrick) wrote:

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The last year numbers are not a good comparison. Everyone wanted an 02 as it was The End. On the Firebird side, it may have been under 40,000 units.
Something else to compare. According to the current issue of HPP, the Fireo was pulled as the sales were below 100,000 unit break-even mark! Now the GTO number is just 12 percent of and Pontiac hopes to make money.
Have my fingers crossed they can sell everyone and more. Just look what happened to the Olds Rocket, crash and burn. Do we want Pontiac to do the same?
I hope not, but the original thinking behind the GTO, Firebird, Bonnie and Grand Am just does not seem to be there. Look at the Mitzu adds, not there is excitment, get your attendtion and want to go fast. All I see in Central PA is how much the incentive is on a Grand Am. Which makes a Pontiact a commoditiy like, bread.
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