Stalling at idle.... STILL!

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Hey everyone...
after 2 attempts of 2 body shops.. my car is still stalling at idle.. usually at a stop light, or slowing to a stop sign... The idle used to be
around 750ish.. lately its been just over 500 and when it hits below 500 it stalls... what can I check or do to fix the idle? Thanks.
-Geno <insert 3 cars here>
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Just an easy one ...
Does it only do it in gear/drive ?
Do the revs pick up when in park/neutral ?
Could point you in the right direction ?
Rich

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As far as I know its only stalled in drive... but I don't notice a difference in idle speeds in park or drive... But then again, I don't normally keep the car in park idling.
-Geno -Geno 1985 Blue Camaro 2.8L auto w/T-tops (aka "Transmaro") 1988 Blue Firebird Formula 5.0L auto w/T-tops 1985 Brown Firebird 5.7L (360) 5-speed NO T-tops
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Sounds like a bad EGR

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on mine (78 Firbird) there is a definate rise in idle speed when I take it out of drive. I noticed because the oil light comes on at idle when the engine is hot. If it put it in park at lights etc the revs rise slightly and the light goes out.
There is drag from the torque converter/transmission I dont know much about them, but maybe the tranny oil and filter change might help ?
Rich

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Is it TPI or Carbed? You need to set the idle speed if it's TPI. You can find all kinds of information on thirdgen.org.
Do you have a scanner that will tell you if the computer is sensing if you're in park or in gear? In gear, the engine should compensate for the load on it.
Changing the tranny fluid and filter won't change the stalling problem. At least not to my knowledge.
How come you're taking it to a body shop and not a regular shop?
-Bruce
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Its Neither.. MPFI.. no scanner... and the first was a body guy cause I needed 2 doors replaced, and a paint job.. with some minior other things.. but the last one was a reg shop.. took it back in today to have them recheck it and do a full tune up and an oil change. Hopefully that will help.
-Geno
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Ok, I'm seriously sick of shops. After taking it back twice, they still tell me they can't get the car to stall, I picked it up and when I get in and turn it on and within 10 seconds it dies... in park it has a rough idle, but doesn't seem to stall, but in drive with the brakes on sllowing or stopped, the car WILL stall in 60 seconds or less. At stoplights, if I am not on the brakes and the gas at the same time, it dies. Could this be a bad ecm? Obviously the shop here isn't any better than the ones back home, so how can I try to diagnose this myself? On the road, it drives just fine, its when it gets down to 650ish rpms it starts messing up, and hitting 500 or less kills it. With all the stoplights, the car not stalling is a necessity... extremely frusterated, please advise.
-Geno 1985 Camaro 1988 Formula 1985 Firebird
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After looking at my shop manual, it says the IAC valve can cause exactly what I have. Ideas?
-Geno
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Hi mate. Sounds very similar to my rover 214si problem. Only its the other way around. Mine dies while the engine is cold. I have to keep the throtle open until the engine warms up. aslo some times the revs go up to around 3k on there own. Now this is a bit bizzare as its never done this before and ive had the car for 12 years. As Ive been working on my own Trans-am and had my head in the Haynes manual for weeks on end it looks to me that the Fuel injected Trans-ams use a very similar method as my UK Rover. Luckly my Trans-am has the older none Injected type E4ME Carb. I to have got trouble with it as well as Ive just stripped a tooth of the starter bendix, and had to order another from the US, but thats another story. The Trans-am has just double the sensors and injectors. Your timing is also controled by the knock sensors, which tweeks the timing as and when it need to to keep the emissions low. You need to disconnect the sensors or ground them to be able to set a stable Base Timing on the engine after a rebuild. Check the Manual for the actual method.
Does it only stall if the engine is cold or only when its hot.? The Rover Brain ECU has two stages of working its electronic choke. But it all depends on the water temp sensors that feed it its info. Now I noticed that the Trans-am has two water temp sensors. 1 for the Users dash readout and one for the ECU to change the fuel mixture. Now if the signal doesnt reach the ecu either via a broken or dude contact or maybe a dude sensor the engine will be running with the choke on. This would cause a crappy idle for sure. espesialy when hot. But it could also work the other way around. if the choke isnt coming on.
The IAC valve could be at fault. but id try and operate it by hand. Take the connector off and place wires to it and feed it 12volts to see if it is actualy opening and closing. if its not then its stuck or dude. But if it does work trace the wires back and try to find out which sensor causes it to work. Also check for any split or broken air lines. I noticed on my Tran-am that every thing seems to be operated via tubes and presure sensors. Pritty old hatt designs, ok if it works. but a pain when its fails.
In an ideal world you could go through each sensor one at a time until you hit the right one. After 12 years of having my rover and doing all the work on it myself including over 8 head gasket chages. I know it inside and out. ! Crappy K16 engines. Oww the best way to stop them blowing the head is to take out the thermostat. then the engine runs cold. hence an normal none force engine temp rise, causing less twisting and stress on the ally head. Ive been running it now for 2 years and no blown head. it used to do it every 6 months or so.!! Ive got a good idea whats causing my rover trouble, but im not going to fix it as Ive just got another newer one to replace it. I bought it as and accident repair job, so once its done ill be retiring the old 214 and using my new 45 instead. own and the trans-am on a weekend once ive finished the work on that also.
Regards WombatPPC. Wanna see more ... http://www.wombatppc.dsl.pipex.com /

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My idea is go with the manual's idea.
On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 22:56:54 -0500, "KITTvsKARR"

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Well.. spent a couple hours scouring the manual and looking under the hood today.. and cleaned and checked a lot of things. I found the line to the EGR was most of the way out.. so I pushed that in, and started it up and it SEEMS to not stall.. but I haven't actually taken it out on a drive yet.. so we'll see. I'll keep you posted.. thanks.
-Geno
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snipped-for-privacy@uwplatt.REMOVE.edu says...

I hope I don't need to make a house call out to NC.
Hmm...2000 miles round trip at 7-12MPG ...
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Dennis Smith
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Well.. you might have to....when it gets to normal temps, anytime the car slows down for stop signs, lights, parking lots,etc it takes less than a minute to die... I have to step on the gas while on the brakes just to keep it from stalling. Still confused as it drives beautiful, just the idle is bad.
How can I trouble shoot this?
-Geno
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Hi dude. Get hold of a multimeter. Then take out your engines thermostatic sensors, and connect the multimeter to them. or do it in car when the engine is cold. place the sensor in a bowl of hot water and see if the reading changes. if no reading change acurs then thats the dead sensor. You will need to set it on some resistance setting so the multimeter will send a few volts through the sensor to check it with.
It sound like the computer thinks the car is still cold, and is running the engine with the choke out/on. The car will work perfectly, but will idle like shite. also check for hose leaks by blowing down the pipes. If you can blow its broke, if you cant the seal is ok.
Another thing. I got my rover sorted out. It sorted itself out. I think it got confused in that the choke was off when it should be on and on when it should be off. Its now fine, as it idles correctly at tickover. The ecu is one that constantly lurns what the engine wants. very similar to the Trans-am. You could also try re-setting the ecu brain. Do that by unpluging the small connector next to the battery. leave it off for a minuter or two. According to the Haynes Manual that will re-set the brain of the ecu. so when you first start the car up the check engine light may show the fault. check what the error code is and that could help. You can set the brain in the diagnostic mode by shorting out pins A and B on the multi connectur under the dash. This will set the brain in the self testing mode. according to the haynes you should not turn the engine ON in this mode. but only turn the ignition lights on. you should then have a flashing check engine light. count the flashes. First flashing is the first number then second set of flashing is the second number. eg. one flash with a pause, then 2 quick flashes. = error code 12. According to the book. Ive not tested this theory out yet though.
Thats very similar to the Rover 214si self testing. On the rover self test you hold down the heated rear screen button and then turn on the ignition. then the car bleeps a few times and goes through the systems checking. Pritty cool stuff as the lights and wipers start going by themself. followed by bleeps to say if its ok or not. I have done this several times on the rover. Not that it ever showed a fault !! :-) Just looks good. Makes you realise how much though was put in when making the brain.
Regards WombatPPC.

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Ow and also.. Read page 4B-15 Section 9 Minimum idle speed - adjustment of the Crossfire (TBI) system. You may need and assistant when doing the work, as it metions the part about putting the car in drive while working under the bonnet. !! The book doesnt mention that if you do it on yourself you will get your ars crushed by moving car.!! :-)
Regards WombatPPC.

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Thanks, but with it being a MultiPortFI, I dont think the TBI instructions would help. <sigh> Somedays its not worth having a car. -Geno
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snipped-for-privacy@uwplatt.REMOVE.edu says...

You'd be better off with a carburator! :-)
Wombat might be on to something. Has the temp sender for the computer EVER been changed? Its probably not reading properly anymore.
Too bad you're not in Wisc. I have a friend with a TECH I scanner that can read all computer info while you're driving.
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As far as I know, no the temp sensor has not been changed. Where is it and how do I replace it? Haven't seen you online in a while.. what gives? You actually get a job? <grin>
-Geno
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snipped-for-privacy@uwplatt.REMOVE.edu says...

It will either be in the thermostat housing or the intake water passage.

I'm online, just not logged into MSN or AIM much.
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