Hot Rod or Chevy High Performance magazines have the pics on their web
site in one of the back issues. Should be a simple search to find
what you're looking for. I've seen CGI orange and CGI green retro
68' Camaro RS
88' Firebird Formula
00' Mustang GT Vert
None of that thinking would surprise me in the least.
PUBLIC NOTICE: If Bob Lutz or any of the GM Brass reads this newsgroup, I
hereby offer my services in choosing the next few GM production designs.
I'll work for "expenses only" for a period of 2 weeks. After that, put me
on salary...after you have some concrete designs selected that WILL sell.
Note: I refuse to look at ANY wind-tunnel designs which were not preceded
by ARTISTS RENDERINGS prior to wind-tunnel computations.
> > > I have been hearing about a new cararo. It is
> supposed to be "retro"
> > > Any definite word yet?
> > >
> > > How about links to proto types?
> None of that thinking would surprise me in the least.
> PUBLIC NOTICE: If Bob Lutz or any of the GM Brass reads
> this newsgroup, I
> hereby offer my services in choosing the next few GM
> production designs.
> I'll work for "expenses only" for a period of 2 weeks.
> After that, put me
> on salary...after you have some concrete designs selected that
> WILL sell.
> Note: I refuse to look at ANY wind-tunnel designs which
> were not preceded
> by ARTISTS RENDERINGS prior to wind-tunnel computations.
Boy, has GM disappointed me. They stopped producing my favorite
affordable American car (Camaro/Firebird) and replaced it with an ugly
Australian POS (the GTO). (I not knocking the Gto drivetrain, just
the looks). While pictures of the new Camaro intrigue me, I suspect
itll be a lot like the new Mustang, lots of retro-flash but more show
than go. Well have to see.
He's actually got quite a lot on the ball....trouble is, it seems to be
all in the business model stages at this point. Noone at GM has done a
decent job of design choices or implementation in years.
Come on, now....AZTEK? Need I say more than that single word?
Yes...three more words: "Front Wheel Drive?"
Anyone who's ever driver a car knows that front wheel drive is for
MANUFACTURERS, not drivers...and drivers, having driven those crappy little
boxes long enough now, have also come to the same realization.
We need a rear-wheel drive sports car that is not horrendously
overpriced...we also need rear wheelers for the mid-level, economy, and
luxury segments as well...
PS: NOONE in their right mind would spend 60+ grand on a Cadillac with
front wheel drive...you wanna know why they're not selling...Uhmmmm...look
under the hood at the $7.53 drive train and you MIGHT find a subtle
hint...well...unless you're in MARKETING...
With a Company as large as GM, with it's major shareholders, and broad
of directors to please. Give Lutz creadit.
As for the Aztec, People Like them. The Buick platform mate outsells
the Aztec in this market. People like the AWD versions around here for
when the snow does hit. Both of them are sure footed for those not well
suited to snow. Enough front bias to get traction out of a snow drift.
Yet enough rear drive to help keep it from washing out when driven at
reasonible speeds. After a winter like this one, they both, as well as
any 4x4 or AWD vehical will do good in this market.
As for Caddilac, it will be Caddilac. They made their last engines in
the 70's. There last Real Cars in 1988. The same year GM's RWD Mid-sizes
were gone. Leaving a few till the mid, only a few till now.
Someone at Caddilac had a wise idea, yet implimented it wrong. They
took a Opel/Vuxhall/Holden chassis. Yet stayed with the Opel drivetrain,
restyled a a bit and called it the Caterra. Now if they would have just
used a Chevolet 3.1V6 or a Buick 3.8, the cars would have been jewels.
GM had the right Idea with the GTO. Take a already exsisting chassis
that has what people are asking for. Put in the Engine & transmissions
they want. Yet where they messed up is cost. If they would have
introduced a Chevelle, with a basic inertior, a more agressive nose
treatment, and a few other revisions, priced for $10K less. You would
not be seeing many dodge magnums on the road.
Maybe it's time for the return of the 300 Delux Wagon?
Dood! The only way they SAVED the Aztek platform was by letting Buick
redesign it...when they released that first bastardized front end treatment,
they didn't sell at all well. They've gotta cut back on the bulk heroin
discounts for designers and marketing people, IMHO...
When they released the Allante, they als made a major blunder by issuing
it FWD, as well. Thoes were nice looking cars...very smooth...and noone
bought them because they didn't want to spend all that money on a FWD.
Cadillac is the main reason that more people buy Lincolns anymore, really.
You can still get a Lincoln with rear wheel drive...even with their driver's
side spring replacement problems, their terrible electrical system faults
(ie: $300/visit to fix a bad wiper motor? Three years in a row?!? COME ON,
NOW!!!) They really could have done a TON more design and engineering on
cornering and body roll on the Town Cars, to put it MILDLY.
My Dad always iked his Fords since the mid-80's, ut he's jumped ship and
gone Jag now. It's still "technically" Ford, but only by "subsidiary
ownership." The Jag drives like nothing else out there...and when you
consider that Ford has total access to all Jaguar engineering by simple
virtue of owning Jag...there's no excuse to make Town Cars that have such
pronouned body roll and other noted and unnoted errors.
For me...I'd like to see my "El Camaro" concept brought to market...but
with my luck, it wouldn't sell. Basically, my idea was an IROC-based,
stretched Camaro with an S-10 bed, a la El Camino...they could have used a
TON of existing off-the-shelf interior, drivetrain, etc components, reducing
production ramp-up costs and time...but they never made any for sale...I
think that they killed the El Camino in the mid-80's once and for all.
Actually, they DID make ONE about 10-15 years back, but they never brought
it to market...I doubt it was my suggestion that caused it, because I doubt
that my conversation at the Detroit auto show could have sparked the
designers to force a prototype only 1-2 years after I'd talked to them (GM
had a booth between 89-91 (can't remember exactly what year now) where the
design team were actively sketching ideas right on the auto show floor...so
I took advantage of it!) but it would have been nice if they'd have taken
ANY suggestions I made THEN instead of waiting for Chrysler and Ford to
revamp and rerelease THEIR old designs.
I LOVED the Prowler....Chrysler or not...starting to get used to the
PT...the Viper was just a bastardized redesign of the Cobra which should
have been a Ford--and now Carrol Shelby's back with Ford...what a
coincidence?!--GM's had TONS of opportunities to do something radical over
the years, but I can tell you that if they'd have released the Pontiac
Stinger concept in the early 90's, they'd have had a KILLER for the youth
market, as well as the recreational and/or vacationers'
market...instead...they went with the Sunfire concept. Sorry...I still
don't much care for that one, either...anyway...just my 2.99124 cents (with
around with present quite overpriced butt ugly
Holden badged as a GTO, but still probably not anything that is going to
compete in sales with Mustang as neither the GP or the GTO are even close to
the total package and price the Mustang is or what the T/A/Camaro's were.
All GM needed to do was a bit of restyling on the F-Bodies, especially the
interior, and they'd be kicking Mustang's ass and the Chrysler Crossfire
would still be only drawings on the wall.
Wow look at all the jack-assedity of this post.
First off, the New GTO needs not be anything like the 1964 GTO.
Yet if you look at the Story of the 1964, and the story of the new GTO
you will see how truely simmular they are.
GM Fast-Tracked the GTO. People said they wanted it, GM did it.
Who cares if the Chassis line is pure Holden? I don't. GM's Austrailian
Devision has some talented engeeners and designer that make hot cars, as
well as utilitarian vehicals that would all sell rahter well in the US
From 1994 to 2004 (ten years) Ford did not have a Mustang worth
anything. Ugly as could be, and got uglier untill the 2005's rooled out.
The 2005's have the look, but not the profromance. for that you have to
wait for a 2006/2007 Shelby Cobra Mustang.
It's time you face it. The F-cars are past life support, there past
heighaitus, there Dead. RWD at GM might make a comeback, but outside of
pick ups, vans & suv's, We have the Corvette, The SSR and the GTO. Now
the question we must ask is: Will the GTO go the way the of the
Catterra? Or will GM address some of what people dislike, and increase
their sales? Will GM Bring back the Chevelle that Hot Rodders want?
The 1964 GTO would have been nothing with out the 1964 Malibu SS. The
lower cost, same chassis, same market nitch car.
That can all be blamed on GM CEO 1981-1990 Roger Smith. With his "corporate
decisions" he really turned GM into unexciting bland car company. GM really
went down the s#$tter in the late 70's and early 80's. It hasn't been the
Lutz is doing his best but unfortunately he has to deal with lots of non-car
enthusiast yuppie idiots on the 14th floor.
I say that, since we cahn't string him up in the town square like we could
in the old days...we at the very least tweak his nipples 'til his eyes
Got that right...they've really gotta get people who DRIVE to help with
design and marketing....rather than just getting designers and engineers and
marketing people...sure, they have their place, but they're NOT in touch
with what COULD be in the market...or what the majority of people really
WANT to buy.
My choices if money were no object?
1) 1984 (or newer) Ferrari Testarossa, but not so much the 512...(I
prefer the cheese graters. ;)
2) 1956 Porsche 356-A Speedster Convertible. (1600cc drivetrain)
3) 1967 Mustang Coupe (390 would suit me fine)
4) Lotus Esprit Turbo
5) 1967 Camaro/Z/SS (350-454/455 would be nice)
1) ANY Jaguar model--take one for a test drive and you'll
understand...push the "S" button on the console (note: NOT "council"...for
those who don't know the difference between the center of the front buckets
and a group of people in a conference room or a town hall...) and you get a
whole new car!!!
2) Austin Mini / BMW re-release (just for putzin' about...cute lil'
things, and reliable, from what I've heard)
3) 2007 Mustang Coupe (I hope they'll have fixed the console by then...as
well as actually bringing out a Coupe version. Coupe is slated for late '05
or early '06, I've heard. Allegedly will be coming out with a Targa
instead of a T system! ;)
4) 2005 Camaro...no wait...they don't MAKE those, do they?! Oh
well...they had that goddamned CHRYSLER front end treatment and wrecked
rear-view on them anyway...(Remember the '94 front end? Remember the 80's
rear treatment? The rear end on the Firebirds wasn't bad...but they wrecked
the front when they bubbled the headlights, and the rear views with the '93
models on the Camaros, IMHO...)
5) PT - Yeah...I know...gutless and all that, but for my needs, they're
not that bad...now that I'm getting used to them...and they're
INEXPENSIVE!!! You can get a PT brand new in Canada for just under 16K!
The last Camaro was over 36!!!
That's just MY TAKE on the market...what I think may not be the same as
what you do...but then again....you're wrong. d8^P
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