97' EB Brake Light problem - odd

John, I have taken a close look at my 97 Ford Explorer Service Manual CD wiring diagrams. Thought it would be worthwhile since I also have an 97EB Exp. I can email you the diagram but it is pretty simple so I'll explain the circuit and where you can check furthur. THE CIRCUIT (---) is wires. IS

BRAKE ON/OFF SW ---->SPLICE(S212) ---->HIGH MT LAMP and LAMP OUT MODULE ---> L & R BRAKE LAMPS ---> GROUND

I would:

1. With brake pedal firmly applied check for voltage in the L&R BRAKE LAMP sockets with a meter (be careful not to short out). If 12 or more VDC you probably have a ground circuit problem. With so much plastic there is a lot of wire ground circuits.
2. If no voltage ther may be some problem in the LAMP OUT MODULE (unlikely).
3. Another possibility is just a poor connection which will allow good voltage readings but will not allow enough current to illuminate the lamps. Iv'e seen this on older cars.

Letme know if you want the diagrams. Jerry in Kingston, WA

Thank you very much for the response. I wish I had seen it sooner. Took it to a Ford Dealership and they diagnosed a faulty lamp out module (LOM) and replaced it. Total charge.... sit down.... $605 I feel like I was taken. He said it took 5.8 hours of diagnosis. I repaired the LOM a year ago when it failed and my headlight was out. I should have figured it was the LOM. Geez, $600 gone

5.8 hours "diagnosis" is insane. Send a copy of your work order to Ford. That dealership should be taken to task.

I would question that diagnosis charge. Being a dealership, they have the Ford manuals; these manuals have troubleshooting guides, and 5 hours to diagnose *any* electrical problem is simply too long.

What can I do? Should I contest the charge with Visa? I dont mind paying for fair service. Is there any more consensus on this as being excessive?

Personally, I would have discussed this while I was there. Now, I'd go and still discuss it with them. Ask to be shown what steps to troubleshoot were taken, and then ask how those steps compared to the troubleshooting guides in their manuals. It wouldn't hurt to find those manuals, and see what the troubleshooting steps are, and see how much time it should take to follow them. If you don't get any satisfaction, I'd go ahead and contest with Visa, then ask them (the dealership) to kick it up a notch, and see if they can discuss it with some managers further up the line.

Small claims court is a possible next step, but it will take some preperation on your part. You'll need to familiarize yourself with the troubleshooting procedures, and how long they may take with a competent technician. You'd need to present a convincing case, because they will.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply Bill Unfortunately this Ford dealership is 450 miles from my home (I was away for Easter). I did ask for them to go over the charges with me and they showed me a sheet detailing the steps. I needed my car back and really couldnt think of an argument at the time. Actually, I still cant think of one other than it just seems like too much money.

I have the same problem with my '95 EB. Where is the Lamp Out Module and S212? How do I test the LOM?

Thanks!