Questions on '01 XLT

Hi all I decided to make the plunge a couple weeks ago and traded my '93 XLT for an '01 XLT with 28K on it. So far I'm pretty happy with my decision. I do have a few questions that I hope someone can answer. My '93 had good ole twin I beam suspension up front. The newer models do not. To me my front end feels weaker. When I hit a pothole or bump the front end seems to quiver a little (used to notice this on our Aerostar years back). Does anybody else notice this, or is it my imagination? It doesn't feel like anything is worn out, just not as "robust". The truck has 16" tires. I see this is an option for this model, but I was wondering if it is just a single option or part of some package. Any ideas? (could it contribute to symptom above?) This vehicle has a factory security system according to the owners manual (PATS I believe it said). I live in an area where I don't worry too much about people stealing it, but I am curious just how effective a theft stopper it is. If I understand correctly, the ignition is disabled if the "coded" key is not in it. Is that correct? Is the system decent, or is it like locking your front door, just keeping honest people honest? The truck idles a little rough, especially right after you get off the freeway and sit at a stop light. The idle rpm seems a little low according to the tach, about 600 or so. Is this normal or should I have the dealer check it out while there is still some bumper to bumper warrantee left? Last question, I have read numerous posts about the gages not being real gages. This seems pretty evident with the oil pressure gage. It's either zero or at mid point. The temperature gage seems to rise at a normal rate. Is it a real gage? Amp Gage? Can I do anything to replace/upgrade the oil pressure gage that will keep the dash looking factory? (like maybe it just needs a different sending unit?)

Thanks in advance for the info,

Larry

Reply to
LCC
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I don't know but I'd guess it's mostly just a matter of a different feel to it. Aside from the radius arm bushing, the old twin I-beam did seem pretty sturdy.

It is very effective. I have never heard of there being any easy way to defeat it. It will keep joy riders from getting the vehicle but a really determined pro would just winch it up on a flatbed to steal it. Of course it won't stop someone from breaking a window and stealing whatever is in the car.

I would certainly bring it in while it was still under warranty. It could be nothing but the decent dealers will try and find out if there is a problem and might just find something. The EGR could be sticky or who knows.

If it's like my 99 Mustang it's "real" up till it hits the midpoint. Once it hits 195 degrees (which is at the midpoint) it won't move past there until it goes all the way up to around 260 degrees at which time it would most likely zoom up . I think you can tell by what the gages do when you first start the vehicle. If they all make a full scale sweep and then settle into the normal position, it's probably a fully digital dash with just analog readouts that are controlled by output from the computer, not direct output from the sensors.

Actually it's voltage gauge. And again, if it's like my 99 GT it's fake. Mine never moves from midpoint even though if you put a real meter on the battery you can watch the voltage vary. You can also put the instrument panel into "diagnostic mode" and then what would normally be the mileage reading turns into a digital readout of all the gauge readings except it's the real values, unlike the gauges.

Anything is possible. However, it's probably not worth the bother. And it would require more then a different sending unit. In addition to the new sender you'd have to track down the resister that is used to fake the gauge reading and wire across it. So you'd probably have to pull the dash out. I did that on my 92 and would not bother with it again.

Reply to
AZGuy

IIRC, the '01 Ex is equipped with a HEC (Hybrid Electronic Cluster). Some inputs (engine temp being one) will come from the PCM and be 'live data'. Tachometer will be the same. Speedometer (sorry, there's just too much stuff to remember) may come from PCM or ABS or GEM. The PATS codes are stored in the PCM on this one but may be stored in the HEC on other lines. I've never had to troubleshoot the oil pressure guage so I can't speak for the set-up.... and I'm too damned lazy to flip the laptop open.

The control arm front suspension is designed to impress new buyers...... more and more folks are forsaking cars and rushing to so called 'specialty' vehicles,,,, be it SUVs, minivans or what. Sturdiness has been abandonned in favour of ride quality (not that I ever had issues with the ride of twin I beam).

Jim Warman

Reply to
Jim Warman

Just because it comes thru the PCM does not mean the readout is "live" data. I have verified the "non-live" behavior on my GT by comparing the LACK of analog gauge movement with the DIGITAL diagnostic readout that shows it changing. Ditto for the voltmeter.

Reply to
AZGuy

I'm not really sure what your talking about..... how much temperature fluctuation are you seeing in the data stream ? The temperature guage has a very small travel for the temperature range we expect it to represent...... a 10° change in coolant temp isn't going to make much of a change in needle deflection - imperceptible is a word that comes to mind. The information supplied to the HEC is updated many times per second - if you'll notice, the temperature guage climbs as the motor warms..... it doesn't just spring to the normal range from a computer command.

The data displayed by the HEC regarding the temperature guage is indeed live data and displays the current operating temperature of the motor. Yes, the PCM processes the analogue information from the thermistor into digital information. This digital information is broadcast on the network to be used by whichever modules require the information. If this data were not live, the EATC and HEC would not have the current data needed to perform their functions.

Additionally, the voltmeter has no such relationship with PCM and the voltage displayed is an honest-to-God guage reading taken at the the pin which is supplied by the ignition switch 'run' contacts.

Jim Warman snipped-for-privacy@telusplanet.net

Reply to
Jim Warman

Thanks for the feedback guys. I will admit I don't understand all the info about the gages and where they get there data from, but it looks like the bottom line is it would be a lot of hassle to change them to "real" gages. If you ever have the opportunity to give a Ford exec. your two cents worth, this would certainly be one of my pet peeves (how much could this have saved them???). As for the comment on the alarm system, I am glad to hear that it is a good one. Interesting note though, when I purchased the X from the Ford dealer it had a dealer installed security system. They said they do it to all the vehicles they offer and if you want it when you bye the vehicle, you pony up about $400. I said no and they offered to cut the price in half. I still said no and now I'm glad I did. When I said no, a service guy went under the dash and removed something. The interesting part of all this is that they said that it had no anti-theft system in it other than the one they wanted to sell me (I specifically asked about a factory installed unit). All I know is that the factory unit still appears to work fine. I guess I'll get over the "sissafy'n" of my front end parts. I'll miss the twin I beam, but I'm getting used to it. Maybe I'll ask them to take a look at it when I take it in to have them check out the rough idle.

Thanks again all,

Larry

'specialty'

Reply to
LCC

10 to 12 degrees. An amount *easily* seen on any working analog gauge.

The temperature gauge has a

Well, that would be the wrong word. A 10 degree temp change is about the width of the needle. It's very easy to see that amount of movement. Especially when you have normal as straight up and the 10 degree increase positions it to a non-straight up portion clearly to the right of straight up. You'd have to be blind not to be able to see the difference.

The information

Where did I say it did? You apparently don't understand what a trivial software routine it is to program the digital controlled gauge driver to feed an analog gauge and have it respond "normally", i.e. linearly, in the range of 100 to 200, then cease further movement until 255 degrees is reached whereupon it would then allow the needle to resume movement beyond 200. With a slight amount of damping in the software it would then rise over a few seconds to the real temp.

I never said live data was not available to the PCM, nor did I say that there was only one data stream coming from the PCM that feed all temperature input needs. It's obvious that there are multiple data streams and that the particular data stream used to drive the analog gauge is programmed to hold the needle at mid-scale regardless of any temps over 200. This behavior is easily verified. Doing that in no way precludes the system from feeding the live temp data thru a different channel to other subsystems that need the REAL temp. Again, this is really very trivial to do in software/hardware - any high school hacker could program it.

Don't know about the explorer in question, that's why I was careful to preface my comments with the info that it's for my 99 GT. The voltmeter in the GT is fake insofar as it does NOT track real voltage, again, easily verifiable by anyone capable of looking at two readouts at the same time, the digital diagnostic readout vs the analog gauge readout. The diag will show the true voltage (as will a real voltmeter hooked to the battery) while the dummy voltmeter in the dash just sits at mid-scale. At what point the dummy voltmeter would ever move, if there is any point at which it would move, I don't know. I do know that mine has never budged (nor has anyone elses I've ever talked to who has a 99 or later GT) even when the alternator was going bad. (Mine was replaced by the dealer to fix a hard start problem caused by LOW voltage, a LOW voltage NEVER indicated by the gauge). Nor did it move off mid scale when my battery died and would not start the car. Nor does it move (like any real gauge does) when you start the car and the voltage drops to around 9 volts when the starter is cranking. On my old explorer, which as a real voltmeter, you can see this happen every time you start it.

The ONLY gauges that are not fudged in some way seems to be the gas gauge and tachometer even though both appear to be digitally driven. The oil gauge is 100% fake, it's driven by an on-off switch, the temp gauge is fake in the range of about 200 to 255 (just a guess at the upper limit as I'm not going to force it to overheat to finally find just how hot it would need to get for the computer to let it move), the voltmeter is mostly fake - it would probably move should the battery catch fire and melt.

Reply to
AZGuy

actually, it saves them a ton of money because it has stopped many many people from coming in for warranty work because they think there is something wrong with the engine because "that gauge" keeps moving around "that can't be normal". The typical consumer gets a warm fuzzy feeling when none of his gauges ever says anything but "MIDSCALE BABY".

There is an additional module you can get on many of them that really is a factory alarm (with the noisey siren) but that would cost the dealer about $45 and he can buy the other ones for about $35 each. The real factory one is additional to the PASS key anti-theift system and has the siren and senses if the doors are opened. On some of the Ford vehicles, if not all, all the wiring is already in place and they just need to pull the trim out of the trunk and plug the module in.

BUt the problem with that, from the dealers side, is if he sells you the factory one it's probably only a $100 option from FOrd and that's what he'd have to sell it for. If he puts his $35 one in he can charge any price he can talk you into. It's a typical dealer scam like fabric protection, undercoating, wax sealer, etc.

Reply to
AZGuy

represent......

The deflection may be very small.... if we are looking for a problem, we will likely find it (the human eye is a wonderful machine). Suffice to say that, if the motor is running hot, we need an indication that the motor is running hot..... if there is a requirement for a plus or minus percent accuracy, costs will increase. Never-the-less, the information is presented to the HEC in a live format and is presented to the motorist in a fashion required for proper vehicle operation.

Where did you say what? I made a statement. I am allowed to do this, yes????

Huh? A high school hacker has ruined my temperature guage? Oil pressure fluctations became a warranty nightmare, ergo the 'new' oil pressure guage. Engine temp is a no brainer on the new motors featuring cylinder head temp sensors..... since you're the expert, you can figure that one out on your own.... The data is indeed live and the HEC shows a presentation of that data...... the guage will not 'spring' from normal to 'oops'...... I know, you didn't say that either..... you just said that the temp guage is unbelievable.

I still don't know WTF your '99 GT is and I can't comment...... In some cases, especially those regarding cars that (I hesitate to use the term) Yuppies will buy, the less information they receive, the better off they are....... present company excepted, of course.... AND THAT IS BLATANT.....

Can I have some of what your smoking????

Reply to
Jim Warman

Thank God I live in Canada.... this "dealer installed" security system is a new age of spam from what I can see. I have heard of dealer where all new vehicles get the treatment, the salesman has the distasteful task of blowing out of proprtion and the (unscrupulous) dealer makes out like jack the bear.

In this new 'progressive' age, I find no surprise in the fact that consumers are being lead around by the nose. Newsgroups and forums flourish, fed by those that can't form their own opinions and/or rely on the opinions of those no more well equipped than themselves......

May God have mercy on us...

Reply to
Jim Warman

Why? It seems you are already using something stronger.

Reply to
AZGuy

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