Uhaul Screws Ford Explorer Owners

Ummm..... we were talking about that LAST year..... welcome back to planet earth 8^)

Rent from Ryder instead. Send an email to uhaul saying they lost your business because of this issue.

I see the red explorer pulling the trailer photo at the top of this page has now been replaced

Why? What's so special about Explorers that Uhaul doesn't want to rent to Explorer owners?

Well, I'm not on a different planet. I just haven't spent my life in this newsgroup like you have so I welcome the post advising of this and will be happy to rent from other moving companies.

J

The idea is to look around at other posts....... that's why there's that whole list of subject lines and authors. That way we can see if there's a pertinent discussion going on and add to that discussion. Seems to me it might be thought of as etiquette.

This is a corporate decision by Uhaul and I don't see how we can misconstrue it as "screwing" Explorer owners. More like Uhaul is denying themselves a portion of the market.

Me?.... after all their hype about one way rentals, I find that motorcycle trailers aren't included in that deal. Here, these trailers need to be returned to the point of origin. That's OK.... I'll load the new bike up in the back of the SuperCrew and unload it onto my buddies deck.

Jim Warman snipped-for-privacy@telusplanet.net

As for where I spend my life.... please do not pretend to know anything about me.

Fair comments on your part and I apologize for any offense, none was intended.

I'm new to Explorers and started looking at this Newsgroup to for a problem I had with the one I bought a few months ago. For background, I've had a couple of GMC Yukons in the past and got out of SUV's a few years ago. Had the Yukons for boat towing and when I moved to bigger boats that stay in the water I don't need to tow anything anymore. However I wanted something I could drive when the weather was bad so I picked up a 97 2 door 4WD Explorer.

The other day while on a round trip drive of about 400 miles I accidently bumped the Overdrive button (poor design I think) on the end of the gearshift. The vehicle was in cruise at 75MPH and came out of O/D. I pushed the button again and from that point until I was home (about 100 miles) the O/D light started flashing. A check of the manual said maybe a transmission problem. I searched the Internet and found some advice to disconnect the battery for a while to reset the computer and see if the light came back on. Did that about a week ago, the light has stayed off, the vehicle seems to shift properly and run in O/D.

I'm just searching for some info and when I saw your post criticizing (I thought) this guy for posting on a topic that had been discussed before, I reacted badly thinking I would be similarly chastised if I asked about a topic that was discussed before.

So again, I apologize...

J

Maybe you missed the dustup over Firestone tires on Explorers last year? Insurance companies got hit for a lot of money on that, and the Explorer name was prominant. I'm surprised, myself, they didn't ban rentals to vehicles using Firestone tires, as that's where the problem really was.

With 6 million Explorers produced over the past 13 years, they can look forward to a potential loss of millions of consumers. Who's being screwed now?

-Joe

Ah. Ok.

I didn't think Uhaul would eliminate the best selling SUV for the past few years from their customer base over that issue.

Thanks.

Money. Their insurance company probably made it worth their while.

Insurance companies don't always base their actions on just the facts; they tend to look at potential losses. Look here in this forum: there are people who post here saying that the problem was Ford's, because of the lowering of the recommended tire pressure. Never mind that Firestone was made aware of this, and still warranted the tires; its still Ford's fault. Never mind that the whole thing was the direct result of a manufacturing defect on Firestone's part; its still Ford's fault. Never mind that Firestone was caught in several lies and a cover-up; its still Ford's fault. Insurance companies will look at that and see that, in a liability case where Uhaul rented to an Explorer owner, a jury is likely to ignore the facts, and say that the fault lay with Uhaul for renting a trailer knowing that it would be pulled by an Explorer. Even if the jury didn't return such a decision, Uhaul would still have to defend itself, an expensive proposition at best.

It was a multi-faceted problem. The explorer is by no means exonerated from blame IMHO. In fact if I were a betting man I'd put more than 50% blame on the vehicle. Firestone had their problems in the Deactur plant also and are certainly not blameless. Ford did a good job of sidestepping any liability but that doesn't change the reality that their vehicles had fairly low tire pressures specified to enable to vehicle to pass muster at rolloverer tests. Add to this incompetent owners that let the tire pressure go even lower than specified, drive in hot climates and you had an issue.

I believe UHaul's insurers realize the reality of the situation and are simply limiting their liability. If I were UHaul I'd change insurance companies before this looses them too much business.

JP

Three points to counter your assertions -

1) Goodyears tires of the same size and type, inflated to the same pressure did not have an abnormal failure rate on Explorers. 2) The 26 psi inflation pressure was not "fairly low." For the vehicle type and usage, 26 psi was well above the minimum safe pressure (around 22 psi) for the application. 3) Other similar vehicles with similar tires have specified similar pressures (some models of the following vehicles have specified a 26 psi inflation pressure - 1996-2000 Toyota RAV4, 2000 Toyota Tundra, 1999 Toyota Tacoma, 1989-1993 Toyota 4Runner, 1994-200 Nissan Pathfinder, 1996-2000 Nissan Pick-up, 2000 Xterra, virtually all Mitsubishi light trucks sold in the US, 1993-2000 Isuzu Rodeo and some other Isuzu light trucks, 90-92 Daihatsu Rocky, 1989-2000 Chevy/Geo Tracker- actually lower than 26 in most cases)

I do think Ford is partially to blame since they specified the tires. However, since the tire warranty was handled by Firestone and not Ford, Ford can be somewhat excused for not catching the problem sooner. It is my belief that Firestone did not communicate the extent of the problem to Ford until things got out of hand. Better communication between Firestone and Ford probably would have reduced the magnitude of the problem.

Ed

And low tire pressure that's still safe is a problem how?

And this is Ford's fault how?

Like I said, there are still those who will blame Ford for Firestone's problems.

Firstly by setting a lower pressure there is less tolerance for poor maintenance, the only reason they reduce the spec was to pass the govt rollover test.

One would not typically expect a blowout on the rear left tire to turn a vehicle over, but that is what happens to Explorers. One would normally expect loss of control because of a blowout on the front where steering is compromised. The geometry of the Explorer makes it more likely to turn over than your average vehicle and for whatever reason that fault is accentuated on he rear left of the vehicle. Propenderance to turning over is true of any vehicle high off the ground, but the Explorer appears to be bad in this area. I wouldn't mind guessing that putting the same flawed Firetsone tire under the same conditions of high temp poor maintenance on a 2004 Explorer would result in far fewer vehicles going out of control.

JP

True, but only because they didn't have the exact same flaw and probably didn't last as long (see below for my list of factors that IMO contributed to the problems).

4 psi is not 'well above' considering the way folks treat their cars.

They have probably reduced their specs for the same reason Ford did. So why don't these vehicles turn over when blowouts occur? Maybe because they are more stable? Realize that because a tire blows out a little more often than maybe it should doesn't mean it causes the vehicle to turn over. A vehicle should be able to sustain a blowout without catastrophic consequences.

Good point.

You've got to realize that no one single factor caused these accidents and fatalities. It was a combination of

1. A Batch of tires with a manufacturing flaw (that was minor but contributory).
2. Low inflation specification by Ford (to compensate for vehicle rollover tendencies, once again minor but contributory).
3. High temperatures in southwest US and Southern states (minor but contributory).
4. Abnormally High Tire temperatures due to under inflation (due to sub par maintenance - minor but contributory).
5. Bad Roads in the Southwestern states. (I thought Tennessee roads were bad until I visited New Mexico - Once again a minor point but contributory).
6. Explorer tendency to rollover being high off the ground compared to wheel span (minor but contributory).
7. Owners running tires for very high mileage's, (still legal tread) but the Freestone's tire longevity as a high mileage tire contributed to its own problems. (Minor but contributory).
8. Driver 'panicking' and braking/steering hard instead of coming to a slow steady halt.

Add ALL of these together and you have a large problem. If one or two these factors is eliminated the problem may have never occurred.

My son drives an Explorer so I'm not condemning it, but it does have it's problems. I'll make sure his rear tires are always inflated to spec and relatively new. Something one should do anyhow.

JP

You should gather a few more facts before forming an opinion. You sound like the uninformed that run around saying that "all Explorers roll over".

• The DRIVER rolls a vehicle over. It doesn't do it by itself.

• There are probably more Explorers on the road than all of the vehicles listed above, COMBINED. Those vehicles all roll over too, it's just that there aren't enough of them on the road to draw attention to the model by the sheer small numbers of incidents. The media doesn't latch on and exploit something unless it's happening more often. With MANY more Exporers on the road, it happened more often. Simple math.

• The NTHSA rated the Explorer as less likely to roll over than several other SUVs and pickups, and many of those are in that list above.

• Car And Driver decided to do its own tests on the Explorer at the height of the media super-scare. They shot the tires out from several Explorers under test conditions, with the driver unaware of the time of the shot. Not one driver rolled, flipped, or did anything but bring the Explorer to a nice, straight stop. They also did some simple physics with heat, tire pressure, and other factors, and found that even a fairly heavily-loaded Explorer would have still been OK with 26PSI.

• Most drivers drive with their knees, eat, yap endlessly on the phone, read the paper, put on makeup, play with a laptop, comb their hair, and do 150 other things other than keeping their eyes on the road, in case you haven't noticed. That complete lack of attention results in panic stops and sudden turns. THAT is what caused many of the rollovers.

• Many of the deaths were from unbelted drivers and passengers being ejected. Dumb.

• The average driver checks air pressure once a year or less. Dumb.

• There were actually more Blazer/Jimmy/Bravada rollovers. There are FAR fewer of those vehicles on the road, which, percentage-wise, makes them MUCH more likely to roll. Where was the media horror there? Ever notice how unbelievably narrow the rear axle is on those POS GM SUVs? (Well, they had nothing else to do with the Vega/Monza axle when those POSs were discontinued EONS ago, so GM stuck them under these rolling POSs). See the next item.

• Once the media found a pattern, they turned it into a headline story for months. NBC "Dateline" even showed a *horrified* Jane Pauly gasping at Explorers rolling over in Ford stock footage of test Explorers (before they were brought into the market). Um, ALL cars are tested like this, and ALL of them are tested to the limits of their ability to remain flat in cornering. THAT'S WHY THE "TRAINING WHEELS" ARE ATTACHED. Duh. Oh, and that hour of "Dateline" had NOTHING to do with the fact that General Motors had recently bought million worth of advertising for the Olympics, right?

• Finally, isn't it a little funny how the "Explorer rollovers" all seemed to have stopped lately? That wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that most of the Firestones have been recalled, would it? And the same size Goodyear tires at the same pressure didn't have these problems, now did they?

Gather up a few facts before you form an self-righteous, ignorant opinion that makes you look like a dribbling fool.

Are you for real? HIGHER inflation results in better cornering, you idiot.

Oh, and I guess you have the FACTS to prove this? It happens on ALL of them?

It didn't seem to happen to Car And Driver when they ran tests.

But, you, of course, are armed with many more facts and test procedures, right? LOL!

LOL! Where do they *dig up* people like you?

Um, case you haven't noticed (likely because your head seems firmly planted in your rectal cavity), have the rollovers seemed to have stopped? With Michelins and Goodyears on most of those Explorers now, um, do you hear all about rollovers anymore?

But wait---you may be right. Ford is now admitting that all pre-IRS Explorers had a secret device, located near the left-rear leaf spring, that periodically poked and prodded the tire to test its ability to remain inflated.

Yikes, what a complete *idiot*.

I didn't say all Explorers roll over. Just that they tend to more than they should.

It is true if people didn't drive cars there wouldn't be any car accidents.

If you notice in my post I listed 8 reasons why I think the explorer got involved in more than it's fair share of accidents. Not that all Explorers roll over. I wouldn't let my son drive an Explorer if I thought he was destined to roll over 'any minute'.

You come over as if there is NO problem with the Explorer. If you believe that you are in denial.

Remember the very first post of this thread? Uhaul and/or their insurers won't rent if an Explorer will be towing their trailer. THEY must have some data, maybe they will never make public, that has them worried.

There is a problem with the Explorer.

There was a problem with Firestone tires too, as well a the drivers, conditions, maintenance etc. etc. etc.

I will say it again. The problem is multi-faceted.

JP