2000 Explorer roll over issue

Older Troopers ('94-'96) had significantly higher injury loss ratings than 4 Door Explorers of the same vintage. For '97 and beyond, the Trooper's injury loss rating was only marginally worse than 4 Door Explorers of the era and the rollover rate was slightly better. Even in the earlier period, the Troopers injury loss rating was better than average for all vehicles, but in the lower half of the mid-size SUV category. The Isuzu Rodeo was especially bad. I should note that 2Dr,

2WD Explorers had a significantly worse injury loss rating than 4 door Explorers (the injury loss ratings for Explorer models decreased from 2Dr/2WD, to 2Dr/4WD, to 4Dr/4WD, to 4DR/4WD).

Ed

The fact remains statically of the sixteen to eighteen so millions of vehicles sold annually in the US, less than 8% of all those vehicles will ever be in a collision, sufficient to deploy the SRS, in their LIFETIME. Less that 2% of those will be involve a rollover.

You are free to believe what ever you wish. (Hint: When thinking of properly belted passengers, think passenger miles)

mike

And, you my friend, are free to get a clue.

As I previously mentioned, in 2000, there were 1.74 fatalities per 100 million miles driven for cars but 2.15 for trucks. Is that what you meant?

That was in the article that I cited from the NTHSA (

Again, I notice that you deleted most of my post without indicating that fact, including the NHTSA citation.

Again, you make a fool of yourself, just like with the VIN issue and the rule 78 loan issue.

One would think that you would have learned to verify what you say, but I guess you can teach old farts new tricks.

Jeff

You are entitled to you own opinion but not your own facts. Once again you have problem with numbers. "Per 100 million miles driven" has nothing in common with passenger miles and percentages any more than your misunderstanding of percentages and defects per 100 vehicles. Statistics must be quantified to have any analytical value. How about the raw statistic that says 98.7 out of 100 woman are female? Does that mean one can assume 1.3 out of 100 are male?

You constant willingness to argue, because of your failure to understand the subject of which you have chosen to comment, does not make the another persons with whom you so often disagree, wrong as you so often like to believe LOL

When told were to search and because you are apparently not capable of doing proper search to find the information you seek, you look for sources to support you convoluted arguments that have nothing to do with the point made.

When informed Japanese corporations do not pay US corporate income taxes because of tax credits in Japan, you say you can't find Toyotas corporate tax return on the IRS site. Of course you can't, One must search for the listed amount of taxes paid by publicly held corporations, which is part of the public record, not tax returns, that are not.

You are a waist of time

mike

Some of these replies are interesting and truthful. Some of them are people shooting from the hip. I agree, however, that the trial lawyers were behind a lot of this. What was interesting was that the lawyers from U-Haul even got into this. I remember reading one time that U-Haul would not allow anybody to rent any of their trailers if the person wished to pull it behind an Explorer. However, you could come in with your Mercury Mountaineer and they would allow the rental to leave behind it. Do they still have this rule?

FWIW, my sister had an Explorer with these Factory Firestone tires on them. About a month after purchasing new tires, the recall came out. If only she had waited another month........ Oh well. I bet the tire dealer got a bunch of free Firestone tires after scrounging out back through the piles of tires and looking for the size of Firestones that were on the Explorers.

Mike, you seem entitled to your own facts.

The reference, which you should have been smart enough to read, said, in part: "Controlling for vehicle type shows that within the passenger vehicle category, light trucks are more likely than passenger cars to be involved in rollover crashes and when rollovers occur, the proportions of fatal and injury only type crashes that involve rollovers are also higher among light trucks than passenger cars. In 2000, 2 percent of passenger cars involved in crashes experienced rollovers and 15 percent of passenger cars involved in fatal crashes rolled over. Among light trucks, the proportions were 4 percent and 26 percent respectively (Figure 1).

"Within the light trucks category, the vehicles most likely to be involved in rollovers were SUVs and pickup trucks. In 2000, 6 percent of SUVs involved in crashes rolled over, compared with 4 percent of pickup trucks and 2 percent of vans. The proportion that rolled over in fatal crashes was 36 percent, compared with 24 percent of pickup trucks and 19 percent of vans (Figure 2)."

(from pp3-4 of )

Please explain why your passenger miles figure is a more accurate measure of whether or not an SUV is more likely to flip than per million miles driven.

Mike, I don't think that whatsoever. Get get a clue, if you can.

And Mike, my willingness to argue has nothing to do with my ability understand the subject. Let me ask this: What does the first digit of the VIN have to do with content? Or, what federal law says that it is illegal to have rule 78 auto loans in the US?

The hell I am not. . There, that article from the National Highway Traffic Safety Adminsitration clearly shows that SUVs are more likely to be inovlved in rollover crashes than cars.

What do you mean? Please explain why the article from the National Highway Traffic and Safety administration which clearly shows that SUVs have a higher death rate and a high rollover rate than cars does not support my argument that SUVs are more likely to rollover than cars.

That is because the IRS does not list or report on which corporations pay income tax in the US. It does report summary data for groups of corporations, but not individual corporations.

I have never argued differently. Furthermore, for the vast majority of corporations, they do not report the amount of income tax paid by jurisdiction. For example, most corporations will report total income tax paid, but not say which countries and states receive income or how much to any country or state. There are, of course, exceptions (as the GM annual report shows), but there is no require to report individual income taxes paid.

I would say what you are, but that would involve language that I don't use.

Jeff

IIRC, the tire dealers and Ford dealers were supposed to drill a hole in the sidewall of the tire, so that they could no longer be used.

Jeff

Yes they were. (and I have the carpal tunnel syndrome to prove it ;) ) He was referring to people scrounging up pre-recall takeoffs and turning them in for replacement under the recall. I'm sure it may have happened, but not on a large scale. Most tire dealers don't have big piles of takeoffs laying around anymore.

When I was researching this stuff a couple years ago I found a Mercedes car that had a higher rollover fatality rate then the first gen explorers did. No one is interested in facts it seems.

Bruce L. Bergman wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Statistics are no better than the honesty of those using them. Just like people who argue the merits based on what car or brand name they support. The facts are this: Anytime an emergency maneuver is required to avoid something it is simply a thoughtless reaction. In most cases the initial reaction requires a corrective action and the vehicle is not in a normal attitude when this happens so all those wonderful trick show techniques and center of gravity arguments are meaningless. The fact is SUVs,Jeeps,and Trucks have a much higher tendency to roll in these circumstances than the average car. As Mike always says you can believe anything you want.

Not necessarily. Plus, one is able to perform the maneuver much better and more safely with experience (just ask Jeff Gordon and Jeff Burton who tend to do these quite frequently at higher speeds than you or I normally drive).

Regardless of whether it is a planned or not, gravity and laws of physics still apply.

Jeff

Bingo!

Often by drivers who are unskilled to say the least. Much like the U-Haul problems.

Yep.

Common sense and a few years of driving should make this obvious.

And he practices what he preaches. :)

They really ought to insist on much more 'emergency driving' training before you get your license in the USA, but they won't because it would be way too expensive.

At a bare minimum they should take all drivers out in a special "Skid Car" that has adjustable outrigger wheels at all four corners so they can reduce the road grip to near zero on command. Northern areas this can be done on any flat parking lot with a little water and some cold weather, in southern states you make a flooded skid-pad area out of glass-smooth concrete. Learn how to manage and recover from skids and slides.

Or put students in a Go-Kart and learn power-slides there.

A "Reaction Course" - the classic four or five lanes with traffic lights above them and cones to show the errors. You boogie down the road at 40 and all of a sudden your lane and the ones to the left go red - you better manage a clean lane change to the right in a hurry, or you just hit the 'obstacle'.

And if they all go red, you better be able to get stopped in a straight line, or brake while retaining control to make that lane change. Pity this skill has been rendered partly obsolete by ABS, which is why the training car does NOT have it. ;-)

And they should take you through the physics of vehicle dynamics, and the physics when you add in a trailer to the mix - even if you never do it, you should know the concepts. How to react to a blowout, to getting one wheel off the road and into a ditch - without overcorrecting and rolling. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

-->--

Quit making stuff up. I thought you finally stopped spouting this nonsense. Prove what you said or stop saying it. To recap - I emailed Toyota, they said they paid US Corporate Income Taxes. The Toyota Annual Report has a large line item for foreign taxes (although not broken out by country). I called the IRS. The IRS categorically told me they do not post tax information for individual corporations. You have never provided one verifiable reference to support your fairy tale. You are either a liar, or you actually have some information that you are not willing to share because you like to torture people. Either way, you are a twit.

Ed