Well... I think I'll cut around the Spamsoil crap and those who think w20 must be 'better protection' than w30 because Ford says so.
here's the facts, as I see it:
NOBODY uses 10w40 anymore in a decent gasoline engine if they have been paying attention.
Like most say, Ford probably went to 20 for mileage purposes, making it a semi-syn to make up the difference. 20 is good enough, after all if a typical engine lasts twice or more the warranty, and with a semi-syn 20 should easily make that...
So your choices would be 5w20, 5w30 or 10w30. A few years ago, most pros went for the least possible "spread' so if the 'cold start temp' were typically 32 or above, 10w30.
Now if it were MY truck, I'd use Mobil 1 10w30 in summer and 5 or 0 w30 in the winter.
I've seen the results of Mobil 1 in two engines over 100,000 miles of MY use and 185 to 200 thousand total...pristine inside!
My prejudices AGAINST types/brands are: Dont use oils that are mainly marketing oriented.. which rules out Amsoil, and the two with Q or Z in the names.
Another point for the ignorance of Spamsoil distributors. OEMs require that oil used in their automobiles be licensced by the API. Spamsoil is not, therefore its use will void the OEM's warranty. Why do you thnk it is not sold in retail outlets? It is only sold by people who want to participate in pyramid schemes and profit at the expense of their friends and relatives.
Of course, I am wrong sometimes. Not this time. It is spam:
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A troll is different.
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Telling someone to" Get your head out of your ass," is not meeting them at their level. It meeting at the level of their knees. It is not a good way to win friends, to say the least.
You sound like a spokesperson for the company.
To me, it sounds like the person is clearly aware of spammers.
BTW, there are other good synthetics out there, like Mobil1. For the record, I am a stock holder of Mobil (like millions of other people), but I am in no way a paid spokesperson or affiliated with the company. The purchase of 5 qts of Mobil1 will increase my net worth by an estimated $0.000000000001.
Do you have any data, other than anecdote, to back you up?
Any studies that suggest that you would be better off with 5w20 or 5w30?
Your logic sounds good, except, that if Ford went with the a particular oil for fuel economy, increased fuel economy and probably descreased friction sound like good reasons to go with thier choice.
I've heard your arguement before (even the service manager at the dealer I bought my Ford offered the same advice), but that doesn't mean that it is correct.
Wrong again, geeze. Amsoil XL oils are API rated. They do not void the OEM warrenty. Amsoil is sold in retail outlets. Amsoil is not a pyramid scheme. Don't all goods sold profit at someone elses expense? Thats how free markets work.
So why not just go straight for the 90W Gear Oil......or at Least 50W.
5W30 is probably not a problem. 15W-40 probably is not a problem in warm climates. On the other hand, I mostly ran 5W20 in my 2003 Expedition as long as I owned it - 93,000 miles. No problems as long as I owned it. Never used any oil, ran great. I can see Ford recommending 5W20 for new cars to improve CAFE numbers, but why issue a TSB for certain old cars recommending its use there as well? The EPA is not going to retest 2000 model year cars and give Ford credit for better gas mileage in those vehicles. BTW, I did notice that my 2006 Mustang with the 4.0L V-6 specifies 5W30 Oil, so Ford is not blindly recommending 5W20 for all applications.
Ok, but if it was harmful, why make the recommendation at all. It gets them no CAFE credits if you switch your old car to 5W20. And they do not make a blanket recommendation. There have been a number of SAE papers by US and Japanese engineers on the subject of 5W20 motor oil. Not one found that it casued durability problems. GM engineers had one paper that found that the
5W20 oil had slightly reduce bearing oil film thickness than 5W30, but the difference was trivial and the paper was actually describing the measurement technique. Toyota and Honda engineers haev both published papers that were positive about the use of 5W20 and both papers calimed that their were no reliability problems. Here is some old verbage released by Ford at the time the 5W20 was initially released (2001):
TSB 01-4-7
ISSUE:
Engine oil recommended for use in 2001 vehicles is SAE 5W-20 motor oil. This oil has an improved formulation to improve fuel economy. This oil can also be used to service some previous model year vehicles.
ACTION:
Use SAE 5W-20 engine oil at recommended oil change intervals for 2001 vehicles, with the exception of the following vehicles listed in the "Exception 2001 Vehicles" chart.
All 2001 vehicles other than those listed in the "Exception 2001 Vehicles" chart are being filled with SAE 5W-20 motor oil at the factory and should also be serviced with SAE 5W-20 oil.
Vehicle Application Listing Approved For SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil:
NOTE: THE "EXCEPTION 2001 VEHICLES" SHOULD BE SERVICED WITH SAE 5W-30 MOTOR OIL.
Exception 2001 Vehicles:
Engine Vehicle
2.5L Ranger
3.3L Villager
3.9L Lincoln LS
4.0L Ranger, Explorer/Mountaineer, Explorer Sport, and Explorer Sport Trac
5.0L Explorer/Mountaineer
NOTE: IF VEHICLE IS NOT LISTED IN THIS APPLICATION, SAE 5W-30 OIL IS RECOMMENDED. REFER TO TSB 99-8-16.
The following Q&A's were originally posted to the Mustang newsgroup years ago -
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS REGARDING MOTOR OIL .... [ info on ATF deleted ]
Q. Why did Motorcraft release SAE 5W-20 motor oil? A. It was the right thing to do for the consumer and for the environment. It was one of Ford's first steps in improving the fuel economy of our SUVs by 25% by the 2005 calendar year. SAE 5W-20 improves fuel consumption by approximately 0.6 percent. For the 2001 fleet, this amounts to reducing fuel usage by more than 21 million gallons per year. This reduction in gasoline consumption leads to a reduction in carbon dioxide emissions by 190,000 metric tons per year, which is equivalent to taking nearly 23,100 cars and trucks off the road each year.
Q. Is there really a difference in quality between 5W-20 and 5W-30? A. It is important to separate the differences in viscosity grade, and also the differences in the performance standards set by the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) and the accompanying American Petroleum Institute (API) performance categories to answer this question.
First, SAE 5W-20 oils are slightly less viscous at operating temperature than SAE 5W-30 oils. This reduction in viscous drag contributes to reduced friction in the engine and thus improved fuel economy for an SAE 5W-20.
Second, there are differences between the present ILSAC GF-2 standard (GF stands for gasoline fueled) and the soon to be commercialized GF-3 standard. The performance of a GF-3 oil will be significantly improved over a GF-2 oil. When Motorcraft released it's SAE 5W-20 formulation we wanted it to perform at the GF-3 level; but the GF-3 spec had not been finalized, so we 'guesstimated' what GF-3 would look like. In so doing we doubled the length of the standard dynamometer Sequence IIIE test (which duplicates high temperature trailer towing) which increases wear protection and reduces oil thickening. While GF-3 also improves on the standard GF-2 Sequence IIIE test, it went nowhere near as far as Ford did. This provides Motorcraft SAE
5W-20 with a significant increase over 'standard' GF-3 oils, which most SAE
5W-30 oils will meet.
Taking all this into account, the Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 will be a significant improvement over most SAE 5W-30 oils.
Q. Does the difference in price between Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 and SAE 5W-30 really reflect a better oil? A. Yes. The better base oils, and increased additives such as friction modifiers and anti-oxidants used to formulate for the performance levels in the SAE 5W-20 do cost more, but reflect the significant increase in performance.
Q. What Ford and Lincoln/Mercury vehicles use SAE 5W-20 oil? A. Approximately 80% of 2001 models should be serviced with SAE 5W-20 oils. By 2003 model year all Ford and Lincoln Mercury vehicles will be filled with SAE 5W-20 at the factory. But there are a significant number of older vehicles, some as old as 1991 models where Ford now recommends servicing with SAE 5W-20. Refer to the chart listed in Technical Service Bulletin Article No. 01-4-7 for details of which older models should use SAE 5W-20 and for the 2001 'exception' models which should continue to use SAE 5W-30.
Q. What happens if someone uses SAE 5W-20 in older vehicles? A. As stated before some older vehicles have been approved for SAE 5W-20. However, there are many older vehicles not covered by TSB 01-4-7, and Ford is presently testing these to determine whether durability and performance would be compromised if SAE 5W-20 was used. Until this testing is successfully completed (and a TSB is published to this effect), it is not recommended using SAE 5W-20 in an older model unless specifically mentioned in TSB 01-4-7.
Q. Is Motorcraft the only brand for SAE 5W-20 motor oil? A. No. Although SAE 5W-20 is not yet a popular viscosity grade, major marketers including Pennzoil, Quaker State, Valvoline, Exxon and others have either already begun marketing an SAE 5W-20 or have plans to do so. Customers should find this viscosity grade increasingly available in coming months, including at some retail outlets.
Q. Will SAE 5W-20 provide longer oil change intervals? A. At the present time Ford recommends no change to the existing drain interval for SAE 5W-20. However, Ford is investigating allowing longer drain intervals since the performance level of Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 is significantly better than today's GF-2 oils.
Q. Why does Wal-Mart have Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 so much cheaper than dealers can now buy it? A. Oil and Filter change is the number one Do-It-Yourself repair. Many Ford Motor Company customers are avid Do-It-Yourselfers. Some may purchase required products from our franchised dealerships, however, most prefer to purchase products available at mass merchandisers. If our product is not available they will buy other brands available at these retailers. Ford Motor Company has an obligation to the EPA to ensure all of our customers have access to this new oil and Wal-Mart is one of several retailers carrying Motorcraft products. Wal-Mart bought several truckloads of Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 at the original introductory price. These original quantities are still available at Wal-Mart. As Wal-Mart re-orders Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 in the future they will purchase it at the increased price.
What would make it more fuel efficient, besides reduced friction? And isn't reduced friction good for the engine? Not to mention that with reduced friction, the engine is cooler?
*ONLY* Amsoil's XL oils are API certified. The remainder of their product line, particularly their "premium" Series 2000 oils, is UNcertified.
Why do you suppose that is?
Only those retail outlets where the proprietor is talked into providing a bit of shelf space to the local Amsoil dweeb for a cut of the take. You do not see Amsoil in any mainstream distribution channels anywhere.
Fffffplblblblblbblbb!
You owe me a new monitor and keyboard. Mine are filled with coffee now.
Amsoil *is* a pyramid scheme. More accurately, it's a multi-level marketing scheme whose main product is *dealerships*. The oil, fertilizer and vitamins are just fluff.
That was my very first post in this newsgroup on this subject. How can that be "getting old"? Oh, that's right, anybody who isn't praising Amsoil and worshipping The Colonel (tm) and dare says anything non-positive about the product is lying. (That includes about 99.5% of all people who are not Amsoil dealers...)
Feel free to point out any lies. "I wish you would stop all your lies" doesn't quite cut it.
Got any explanation (a *believable* explanation) for why Series 2000 oils aren't API certified? Got an example of Amsoil being sold in a retail outlet where it's *not* due to some local Amsoil dweeb striking a deal with the proprietor for some shelf space? Got any explanation for why independent testing shows Amsoil to be no better than most other (significantly less expensive) synthetic oils while Amsoil's own testing always places it way above the competition?
Apparently your brain has steeped in Amsoil for so long you're unable to distinguish blatant marketing hype from the truth.
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