So YOU are the one we should be lynching for designing cars that are next to impossible to service???? And ungodly expensive to repair???? And I'm talking Big 3 North American, not import!! We can save $0.02 on each car if we do it this way - so what if the mechanic needs to amputate his arm to change the plugs, or whatever.
LOL, you really are delusional aren't you? A top of the line GM isn't worth as much as a base Camary after only 3 years!
Unless the rules of supply and demand affecting production costs has changed, I don't buy it.
Link.
You won't win this on Mike. I got into it with a BMW salesman a few years ago. He never comprehended that the BMW may return more dollars or even more percentage after 3 years but, you still lost more absolute dollars. In any case, I could have bought an Escort with the difference and threw it away after two years with money left to buy all the gas for the Escort. The goverment school educated among us have somehow completely bypassed ecomomics 101 and how to balance a check book.
Lugnut
Do try and follow along, DUH!
2006 Mercury Grand Marquis GS Price With Destination Charge and Required Equipments MSRP $25,555.00 Invoice $24,092.00 2006 Toyota Avalon LIMITED Price With Destination Charge and Required Equipments MSRP $34,355.00 Invoice $30,297.00The Avalon sells for $8800 MORE than the Grand Marquis new.
2000 Mercury Grand Marquis GS Sedan 4D Consumer Rated Condition: Good Mileage: 50,000 Private Party Value $6,280 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS Sedan 4D Consumer Rated Condition: Good Mileage: 50,000 Private Party Value $13,605The Avalon sells for $7325 MORE than the Grand Marquis 5 years used.
The Grand Marquis gained $1475.00 in value over the Avalon in 5 years
LOL, how is it that the same $25K 2002 GM that is worth $10K now is saving you more $ than the $25K 2002 Camary that is worth $16K now? LMFAO!!
Do try and follow along...
2006 Mercury Grand Marquis GS Price With Destination Charge and Required Equipments MSRP $25,555.00 Invoice $24,092.002006 Toyota Avalon LIMITED Price With Destination Charge and Required Equipments MSRP $34,355.00 Invoice $30,297.00
The Avalon sells for $8800 MORE than the Grand Marquis new.
2000 Mercury Grand Marquis GS Sedan 4D Consumer Rated Condition: Good Mileage: 50,000 Private Party Value $6,2802000 Toyota Avalon XLS Sedan 4D Consumer Rated Condition: Good Mileage: 50,000 Private Party Value $13,605
The Avalon sells for $7325 MORE than the Grand Marquis 5 years used.
The Grand Marquis gained $1475.00 in value over the Avalon in 5 years
NADA guides do not bear our you believes .
mike hunt
Perhaps but you must admit the ones designed over the past ten years will go ten times as far before needing to be serviced as they did in the 'good lod days.'. The warranty use to be 1000 miles or thirty days, WOF ;)
I worked in structural design engineering and imports are for more expensive to repair than domestics in any event
Perhaps in your min , but you first need to do a bit of research my friend. NADA lists a 2003 GM V8 LS, with 25K on the clock, at $17,375. A V6 Camry, with 25K on the clock, is indeed listed $2,000 higher at $19,375. However the larger V8 GM sold new for 24K and the smaller similarly equipped V6 Camry sold new for 29K, or $5,000 MORE when new. The GM offers a far better return, of around 15% more on ones original investment, than the V6 Camry. Economics, 101
mike hunt
You are entitle to believe whatever you wish, but me thinks you are confusing retail pricing with production costs. For instance a Lincoln T-car sells for nearly twice the price of the GM/CV but cost only around $4,000 more to build. The first FWD Escorts, that sold for $2,000 more than the Pinto, cost nearly half again as much to produce than the Pinto. Ford actually sold them to dealers at a price below cost, until economies of scale over three or four years of production lowered the cost of production, because of CAFE requirements. The reason FWD vehicles cost more to build is they requires more of the far more expensive off line pre-assembly than RWD vehicles. The same was true of Chryslers FWD v RWD vehicles back then. Been there done that.
mike hunt
BUT, you are stuck driving a 5 passenger(squeezed in) Honda.
Rob
AND the tooling for the Panther is almost completely amortized.
Rob
And the Panther has been slowly evolving since 1978(79 model year), most of the tooling has been (paid off), and the bugs are worked out, the layout is a proven one. When was the last major recall on the Grand Marquis? I'd have to look it up it was so long ago.
Rob
Clearly the truly astute car buyer would buy a used Grand Marquis. They are apparently bullet proof. Around here the majority of taxi's are Crown Victorias that are used police vehicles purchased from he State Surplus Sale. They paint them up and drive them for years. I am surprised by how many early 90's CVs I see still on the road in taxi service. Early 90's Accord are a rare sight around here no matter how they are being used.
Any how, I am not so sure you are doing the math correctly.
2000 Honda Accord LX VS.-6 in excellent condition with 80,000 miles private party value $10240 (KBB.COM) 2000 Grand Marquis LS in excellent condition with 80,000 miles private party value - $6355 (KBB.COM)So the people selling Accords are asking for around $3700 more for a used car than people selling Grand Marquis (asking - have no idea what they are actually getting, but the used Grand Marquis seems like a bargain).
However the original MSRPs for the two cars were:
Honda Accord EX V-6 - $24,550 Grand Marquis LS - $24,505
Now this is the MSRP - what do you think the actual selling price was in
2000? I know you could get the Mercury for less than $20K (my Mother bought one). I would be surprised if you could get the Honda for less than 24K. So, in the end, I think the total dollar amount of depreciation was about the same ($14k more or less).BTW, I sold a 1992 Grand Marquis in 2000 (my Mother's old car). I had no trouble getting $4K for it. Sold the first day. So apparently there are a few smart buyers out there.
I have a funny story about used Honda prices. Years ago my Sister had an Accord. A Mustang rammed her from the side and the insurance company decided to total the car. They quoted what I thought was a ridiculously low value for the car (based on NADA Book Value). So to provide ammunition for demanding a higher settlement amount, I had my Sister go around to the various local car lots that had similar Accords for sale. Sure enough every lot started out quoting the NADA value. At this point she thanked them and tried to leave. In one case the salesman chased her out to the car quoting ever lower prices. It was really funny. Before she could escape, he had already knocked $2000 off the initial asking price. I always wondered how much lower he would have gone if she had really wanted to buy the car. Naturally I left this part of the story out when we got together with the insurance adjuster. Hey finally gave her the full NADA retail value (but not until we talked to his supervisor). I always thought they got a good deal, since my Sister could have easily bitched about lost hours at work, cost of a rental car, medical charges etc. (Oh yeah, the Mustang drove away form the accident).
Ed
No, it sells for something like $6235 more. Forget about list - NOBODY pays list.
Your math stinks. The premium for the new Avalon is $6235 at actual selling (invoice) price. It is worth $7325 more REAL dollars than the Marquis 5 years later. Means the Marquis LOST something like $1090 in relation to the Toyota over 5 years. And that is ASSUMING those price levels. They vary WIDELY, from city to city, state to state, and country to country. There are MANY places you might have trouble selling the NEW Marquis at even a $4000 discount from list. And selling a 5 year old one for $5000 may take months.
ALSO there has been quite a change in content from 2000 to 2006 on the Avalon. Nowhere NEAR the same car - and theGrand is virtually the same car 6 years later. In 2011 the 2006 Avalon may be worth TWICE what the
2006 Grand Marquis is worth - nobody knows.And if you want apples to apples, what WAS the selling price of a new
2000 Grand Marquis - vs the actuall selling price of the 2000 Avalon??Any car is worth exactly what the highest bidder is willing to pay for it on a given day - not one penny less, and not one penny more.
They are only reported averages. The real world is different. Even the "kelly blue book" allows for large regional disparities.
In Flint a Buick will have a higher resale. In Windsor a ford, in Bowling Green Kentucky, a chev, etc. When Ford puts dinner on your plate and pays your mortgage, you don't drive a Chevy or a Toyota.
And 90+% of mileage is put on with only one or two people in the car - so why drag along the extra??
You better add SOME in both lines.
SOME imports are a lot more expensive to repair than SOME domestics.
I see a LOT more domestics totalled for relatively minor damage than imports. ANd when it comes to SMALL domestics the difference gets even more noticeable.
And you see lots of relatively new domestics scrapped with NO body damage because fixing the power train is not economically feasible. Putting a $3000 rebuilt engine and $4000 rebuilt transmission into a 6 year old car that will only sell on the lot for $5500 does not make any sense at all. And this is happening with less than 200,000KM on the car. Often with less than 100,000Km.
Look at the mileage on the non colision damaged cars in your local scrapyard. Other than Mitsubishis the mileage on most of the imports is significantly higher than most of the domestics.
When it comes to mechanical repairs, the domestics have raised their parts prices(at least here in Canada) so stupidly high over the last couple of years even a PREMIUM import can be cheaper to maintain than a standard domestic.
Yes, the new cars DO, on average, last longer between repairs than in the "good old days", but today's import is a MUCH better car than the crop of the sixties and seventies - when most imports WERE inferior. (Think Vauxhall, Hillman, Fiat, VW Beetle, Austin, Opel, Taunus, Datsun 510, Corolla 1100, etc)
No sir, I used a single source for my numbers
I generally buy my new vehicles at $1500-$3000 under dealer invoice, not MSRP, most people pay more. How good of a deal I or anyone can make has nothing to do with MSRP (a known/constant number) or someone's assertion about which car retains a higher retail value.
Produce your numbers and your sources, or shut up, you are stinking it up in here.
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