$3.00 per gallon gasoline. Why is everyone so panicked?

So you do realize you have made an idiot of yourself...

We get what percentage of our oil from the Saudis??? Is that "most" of our oil? We get what percentage from Venezuela? Are the two, even put together, somehow "most" of our oil.

And just because they are run by dictators does not mean they support terrorists.

You just are *not* being very logical.

The *facts* are that for total petroleum products imported (all of 2006), Canada was by far the number one source at 2.3 million barrels/day. Mexico is second by a significant margin, at

1.8m/day. And Venezuela, which is *not* a terrorist country and is not even in or near the Middle East, was third by a larger margin at 1.5m/day. (Crude only numbers are slightly different, but the signficance is the same.)

Saudi Arabia, which really should not be accused of supporting terrorism, was forth on the list with 1.4m/day. Nigeria, another relatively benign country rounded out the top 5 (and the list of all that supply more than a million barrels per day) at

1.2m/day.

So the question for you is just where do you get off claiming we buy most of our oil from Middle Eastern countries that support terrorism?

You can't add, son. Between the two, they provide us with 3.1 million barrels per day of petroleum products (not just crude). That is indeed less than half, but the rest does *not* come from "Middle Eastern countries" supporting terrorism.

In fact, *all* of the Middle Eastern oil that we import amounts less than we import from Canada alone!

You claimed we imported *most*, not just "much" oil from the Middle East. In fact, all totaled our petroleum imports from the Middle East amount to 2.0m barrels a day. That is *all* Middle Eastern countries, including Iraq, combined; and it is less than the 2.3m/day that we import from Canada alone.

We use about 21 million barrels a day, and import less than 10% of that from Middle Eastern countries.

Correct. *WE* are not.

Sure sure. Show us some legitimate figures projected for how that would happen.

Exactly. So you *cannot* claim it is "relatively safe", when millions of people are put at risk. So it obviously *is* a contradiction when you claim otherwise.

Not for *millions* of people from one mistake.

But it only takes *one* mistake to affect *millions* of people.

That is *not* the definition of "relatively safe".

Those individuals may have been Saudi's, but you are wrong to claim that the Saudi's support terrorism. There is *no* way they were supported by the Saudi government, any more than they were supported by the several other countries where they were located while plotting terrorism.

You are not arguing logically.

(On the other hand, ask most Arabs if the US supports terrorism! Ask most Iraqis or Iranians! They are not wrong either.)

And we *don't* do that by putting 10,000,000 people at risk for every power plant we construct! That is an absurd idea.

With the single exception of Iraq, those are relatively friendly countries. We don't buy oil from half of them.

Here is an idea folks. While this started out as a novel debate on the cost of gasoline, it has gotten WAY off track. If you want to talk cars, GREAT, lets do it. If you want to debate politics, take it SOMEWHERE ELSE... I come in here to read up on peoples car problems, and NOT see "60" posts to a political debate. If you want to debate something, take it to that forum, NOT here..

I would appreciate it if you could take this debate elsewhere..

Thanks, Ford Tech

As will the wastes of the chemical industry. If you're afraid of 'terrerrists' then its not hard to stick it in a well guarded lot. Its not easy to steal spent fuel casks that mass tens of tons. It misses the point anyways of there being a better solution to the issue tomarrow than today because it just isnt a problem. Spent fuel hasn't killed anyone.

You've visited two nuclear power plants. Big deal.

You might want to consult a map. Allentown in not between Berwick and TMI. It is about 20 mi. East of the line between these plants. I trained for a couple of months in Allentown, at Lehigh Valley Hospital there, doing internal medicine and intensive care medicine there while in medical school.

Thanks for the laugh about telling someone he doesn't know as much as he thinks. I mean, you thought that the first digit of the VIN indicates US content of vehicles. ;-)

You crack me up.

Maybe you should visit the hospital more. Laughter is good medicine. B-)

Jeff

You get a clue. The federal regulations did not require to jury-rig anything. Perhaps Ford did, however.

If I am wrong, show us the regs that required engineers to use old technology.

Jeff

You mean how they have not gone much beyound the requirements in CAFE.

I am quite certain that there wouldn't be catalytic convertors and other pollution equipment on cars and trucks if they weren't required by regs.

Jeff

Gasoline taxes are also much higher than they were in the 70's, which is a sizeable portion of the money paid per gallon.

Environmental laws are also now more demanding, requiring new additives, new formulations, and seasonal reformulations. This also drives up the cost.

The price of the gasoline itself, adjusted for inflation, isn't actually that high.

It's easier to blame the "evil oil companies" though than our all wise, compassionate government.

Duh, who said my home was in Allentown?

mike

I guess I must bow to you superior knowledge of what happened back then.. After all I was only working on those engineering changes at the time, not going to nursing school at the time like your LOL

mike

I your intellectual dishonest rearing its usual ugly head. You, again, removed parts of my post without indicating that fact.

You said that you live north of Allentown. Berwick is approx. 35 mi WNW of Allentown. If you live north of Allentown, then you must be east of Berwick. Unless, of course, you do not know where you live in relation to Allentown, Berwick and TMI or you are unable to describe the position. ;-)

If you lived closer to Berwick, you would live nearer to Hazelton or WilkeBarre or another city closer to Berwick

If you are able to understand a map, you might have the ability to understand what I mean.

You also said that you live in the Poconos, which are to the East and North of Allentown.

I am quite familiar with the Pocono area. Not only did I do some of my medical training in Allentown at the Lehigh Valley Hospital and at the Easton Hospital, but I grew up in the area. In fact, the school district which I attended had the name Pocono in it.

Of course, if you didn't report your location accurately, I understand. ;-)

Jeff

Can you back your claim? Gas taxes may be more than they were during the

70s, but I don't think so. The average tax on gas is about $0.40, but ranges up to about $0.48. The tax on gasoline makes up about 15% of the price of gasoline.

And it improves the environment. The additives and formulations prevent smog and other pollution problems. The legislatures, IMHO, did a poor job of enacting the laws. Had they done a better job, there would be more uniformity in the different formulations, making it so that there would have to be fewer blends of gasoline.

Yeah, I know. The price rise over the last 8 years or so is quite high. But that is because the price of gasoline didn't keep up with inflation during the 90s.

Just who is the government, anyway? The people. They have the right vote in the leaders they want, like President Bush.

Also, consumers are willing to have higher fuel prices (through taxation) to low energy demands and to help control global heating

Jeff

I was in medical school, though nursing school is fine, too.

I see you intellectual dishonest of changing my response without indicating that fact is still rearing its head. How sad that is.

Jeff

Please stop top-posting. It makes it hard to follow threads. In-line posting makes it easier to follow threads. I know Mike Hunter is not able to figure this out, but some people are smart enough to figure it out.

Cars from about 1972 (the year the Pinto came out) had hardened valaves and other components. I would think that the auto makers were studying how to make their engines more durable without leaded gasoline than whether their cars would run better with or without lead in the gasoline.

So I think this research was in response to the mandate. The federal government typically gives years of notice. It takes time for the automakers to check out their components so that they would wear well, as well as for oil companies to come up with formulations that don't have lead.

I wasn't joking about the lead poisoning from the Skulkill expressway in the Philadelphia Zoo. The zoo is about 1 mi from the expressway, which is an

8-lane highway. Considering that there are about twice as many miles driven each year, lead poisoning would be an even bigger problem than it is now.

Jeff

Good point Tom. I was listening to some tape recordings of an AM radio station from the summer of '75. A commercial for the Ford Pinto station wagon stated that the EPA mileage was 32 mpg highway. I remember those cars and they were pretty decent and had good pep, though not as much as the Focus. Yet, it still got good mileage from a carbed, 4 cylinder engine. Not bad for

70's technology and it goes to show that a Focus of today doesn't do all that much better.

Tom wrote:

That's not true. The auto companies were already researching the idea of using unleaded gas in the late 60's and early '70's to prolong engine life, long before federal investigations and the federal mandate.

You're likely far more pleasant in person. Of course you only are because it keeps you safe.

The $500 Billion number was reported on EVERY network newscast and was in nearly every newspaper in this country.

If I made a mistake, it was listening to and reading the news.

PROFIT MARGIN is not the same as PROFIT..you KNOW that but want to play games.

Play by yourself.

No law forces anyone to live in any home or apartment. A nuclear power plant takes MANY years to build, so you would have plenty of time to make plans to move.

The fear of nuclear power plants is based solely on 3-mile island. One plant, one occurrence, period. And from that we received nearly 30 years of people protesting the nuclear power industry. Meanwhile france knows what to do and we act stupid.

Again, a car is, and always will be, more dangerous than living 100 feet away from a nuclear power plant.

NHTSA and other federal agencies publishes the death/injury stats on car wrecks each year.

How many people died from the 3-mile island accident?

Don't mention that "other" one. We don't live in Russia and if Russia had the same rules in place that we have then chernobyl would have never happened. The plant would have been shut down for refit.

'Curious, anyone died there as a direct result of that plant?

As opposed to the deaths from cars and oil/coal factories?