I have a 302 ('86 block, 28oz imbalance) with '65 289 heads (round pushrod
holes, rail rockers, 53.5cc chambers) it has a stockish hydraulic flat
My #8 intake valve makes a ticking/tapping noise. It sounds a lot like when
a rocker arm is too loose, except perhaps a bit of a deeper tone. With the
engine running and the valve cover off the noise is present. When I push the
rocker arm (at the valve tip) toward the front of the motor, the noise goes
away and the motor doesn't make any noise. When I let go it will stay silent
for a few seconds, then start making the nosie again. If I push the rocker
arm (at the valve tip) toward the back of the motor, it will also make the
noise. The motor does not make this noise when cold (if it does, it is very
faint), only after running for 5-10 minutes to get up to temperature.
This noise is not present when turning the motor over by hand. I checked for
clearance issues between the rails on the rocker arm and the retainer, there
are none. I checekd to ensure the rocker arm slot is long enough and is not
binding on the stud, it is not. There is no sign of abnormal wear on the
valve tip or the rocker arm. The valve spring and damper appear to be intact
and not binding. The damper does not appear to be hanging or binding on the
If anyone has any thoughts on what this may be I'd appreciate it.
Unfortunately that doesn't cure it. I've tried tightening it even more
(slowly with engien running until it runs rough) and it doesn't do it. The
heads don't have a whole lot of miles on them... I got them second hand but
they did not have many miles on them when I got them, and I've only put
18,000 miles on them. They should have less than 25,000 miles. All the other
rockers are quiet with adjusting to zero+1/4 turn.
I'm wondering if maybe the valve guide on that cylinder could be bad/worn on
that valve, maybe letting the valve rock a little in the guide. The noise is
a lower pitched noise than typical rocker noise. Don't know if that tells
you anything though.
I don't remember for sure, but I don't believe it does. I'll test that as
you mention though, and see if the noise goes away for a second. It would be
nice if it was something as cheap and easy as a bad lifter. I kinda doubt it
though, as I don't imagine moving the rocker that little bit has much affect
on the lifter. The noise goes away if I push hard on the side of the valve
spring and retainer, not touching the rocker arm.
Instead of constantly just tightening the lifter which does nothing but limit
its job why don't you measure the rocker travel. Do some real diagnosis. Install
a dial indicator on a good rocker and measure the travel while slowly turning
over the engine. Then do the same on the suspect rocker. Make sure that if the
suspect bad rocker or cam lobe is a intake you put the dial indicator on a
intake, if it is an exhaust, measure an exhaust. Your looking for the same
travel. That will tell you if the cam lobe is worn down. Hell even a cheap
Haynes manual talks about measuring cam lobe lift.
I remember now why I stopped reading and posting to this group. Too many
smart-asses like you being rude. I think it's clear I've done a little more
than just sit there tightening down on the rocker (can't tighten a lifter,
except perhaps with a different spring, smart-ass).
In any case, while measuring the travel may be worthwhile, I don't
understand how that may cause a ticking/tapping that would stop when
applying pressure on the side of the valve. If the cam lobe were worn that
should only result in less valve lift. Adjusting the rocker properly should
ensure there is no noise as there is no slack anywhere from camshaft to
valve. So, if you don't mind, I'm curious as to how a slightly worn cam lobe
would make the rather loud noise my engien is making.
For what it's worth the motor only has 18,000 miles on it and was properly
broken in, and looking down the head all rockers appear to have the same
travel (I know that doesn't necessarily mean much, but I've seen engines
with wiped cam lobes and it was obvious to me that those particular valves
were not opening as far as the others).
"pick one" <try again!> wrote in message
Sorry kid, laws of physics and my experience both show that rocker arms will
need periodic adjustment, unless perhaps polylocks are used. Standard
locknuts will back off over time, especially if they have ever been removed
after initial installation. It's a fact, get used to it. In the mean time,
try learning some basic Usenet etiquette and trimming your quotes.
Show an engine with hydraulic tappets that has a recommended periodic
adjustment. What law of physics are you implying? The fact is that if the lifter
starts to tap it's because of reasons like the internal spring is weak.
Tightening down on it only limits the travel of the plunger. That could and does
cause the plunger to bottom out. You just created a new tap. Because of the
smaller travel of the plunger, less oil is sent to the rocker, you just wiped
out the rocker and valve head. If the bottom of tappet has worn enough to tap,
the cam lobe is worn also. That extra play will damage the rod, rocker and valve
head. A common problem of engine with solid tappets that have not been adjusted
Backing off locking nuts? Don't think so.
Meaning you did not do the job correctly, they are supposed to be replaced.
Once again, you keep talking about lifter noise. i'm talking about rocker
noise. You keep ignoring that and talking about lifters. Go ahed and keep
donig that buddy, I'm not gonan bother going into any detail correcting you
as you'll just rant on about lifters again.
If you don't believe me talk to someone else who has worked on a lot of old
cars. Lock nuts do back off. All that holds them tight is a resistance fit
at the top of the threads in the nut. That resistance with the threads makes
it so the nut requires more torque to back off. With solid lifters they back
off much sooner, as the lash makes for a harsher life for the lock nut.
Hydraulic lifters will back off the lock nuts too. It takes longer but it
will happen, especially with more radical cams and/or high RPM. Another
reason why with more radical cams you generally upgrade your rockers and use
poly locks. Go ahead and ignore the facts if you choose, it doesn't make any
difference to me or my car.
Lock nuts generally are good for more than one disassembly and reassembly,
and also more than one adjustment. The shop manual also does not say to
replace the lock nut. They can generally be reused several times before they
wear out. However, even brand new lock nuts are not guaranteed to not back
off at all over several hundred thousand miles. it doesn't work that way due
to the very nature of how they are built and the environment of holding hold
a rocker arm.
I've already read everything in the thread. Basic Usenet Etuquette is to
trim any excessive non-pertinent text. It makes it cleaner and easier to
read and also reduces the size of the file. It's simply being polite, but
I'm not surprised in the least bit that someone so stubborn as yourself will
not do the polite thing and trim your replies when appropriate. It seems to
me that you've gotten into an 'I'm right, you're wrong' sort of 'Holier than
thou' attitude, and it doesn't matter waht I say, because as far as your
concerned I'm wrong. You can argue all you want about lifters and lock nuts,
and there may be some validity to it from your experience (I'm telling you
what I've seen in my experience, and many of my buddies and internet friends
have experienced... It would be nice if you could respect that as the facts
that it is), however, it is widely accepted and common Usenet practice to
trim your replies when the text gets excessive and is not being replied to.
Go ahead and deny it, or use whatever excuse you want to. I'm just telling
you what is proper and polite.
Get your heads redone and\or (at least) install a new cam and lifters already.
There are lots of hypothetical failure scenarios, but....YOUR LIFTERS ARE WORN
I appreciate your love of your 67-68 Fords (My first car was a 68
XL\GT)(428\2x4\4-speed :)), but when all is said and done, they wear out after
years. No amount of throwing used parts at them will fix the problem.
Listen to Pick One instead of arguing with him, you might learn something.
Lifters are 1 year old and have 18,000 miles on them. I was not aware a cam
and lifters only last 18,000 miles. The heads have less than 25,000 miles on
them. I was not aware heads only last 25,000 miles. If you read my posts in
this thread you would know that this is a low mileage motor that has been
cared for and not abused.
Sorry for being snide in my reply. I was grouchy about something from my day
today when I posted that. For wahtever reason you didn't read the part where
I metnioned the mileage on the motor. No biggie. The motor has low miles on
it and has been broken in properly and treated right, so it should not be
having any bad lifters or anything like that so soon in it's life. I would
expect at least 100,000 miles out of this motor without any major failures,
probably double that though.
I don't understand how a lifter would make the noise that the engine is
aming, and if it is the lifter, why does the noise go away when the engine
is running and I push on the side of the valve spring? I also have taken the
lifter apart and cleaned and inspected it. I soaked it in cleaner and didn't
see anything wrong with it (no abnormal wear, everything appeared alright),
so I put it back in. Before I go pulling the engine apart to get to the
lifter and then taking the lifter apart again and possibly replacing it I'd
like to know how or why a lifter might make that noise and what about
pushing on the side of the valve spring might make the noise stop. I just
don't wanna know why I'm gonna do something before I do it.
As I understand it, there has been a quality control problem with aftermarket
lifters for the last 2-3 years.
I don't now the specifics, but I know a number of rebuilders who have
the fact. Maybe someone else here knows what I'm speaking of? Anyone?
Sorry Cory, last I heard you we're still cobbling on your old 289\302s. I
this was a problem with one of those high mileage motors.
BTW, I just picked up a 68 Custom with a 351\3 on the tree. It's roached but
driveline is OK. Need parts?
I would love the transmission and clutch setup out of that car (maybe the
steering column and shifter too)! Heck, I've been wanting a bigger motor. I
was thinking of trying a cheap 460 build if the right motor came along. Was
hoping I could find something I could get away with a quick re-ring and new
bearings, and put a C6 behind it, but maybe a 351W would work well enough
(is that 351 an FE or Windsor?). If you seriously wanna part it out I may be
interested in the clutch pedal setup, possibly more in you're close enough
(I'm in NJ).
Anyhow, I kind hate to take the intake off but for the price of a lifter and
an intake manifold gasket it may be worth it even if only to eliminate the
lifter as a problem for sure.
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.