During the evacuation of New Orleans, on-board fuel supply and on-road fuel availability was of considerable importance and worry to car travellers.
It is feasible to build cars with fuel tanks of sufficient capacity to achieve 600 range with reserve.
Car makers consider 325 miles with reserve good enough. It isn't. Since car makers won't build cars this way, we need to force it down their throats with a Federal Law.
ya but at what point do you stop paying to transport gas around.
1st rule of fuel economy drive light on the peddle and make sure the car is light. I can't recall how much 1 gallon of gas weighs in at. nor can I recall how many lbs of weight removal = increase of available horsepower. point being is driving around with nearly 2 times the amount of fuel = 2 times the amount of weight there for fuel economy would suffer. and would ppl pay $60 to fill a dodge neon. nope better off driving with 1/2 tank just like it is now.During the hurricanes that hit Florida last year, fuel supply was an issue for several months - as it will be in Louisianna, Alabama and Mississippi. However, mandating a 600-mile range on vehicles with more federal regulation isn't the answer and didn't mean anything when you couldn't get gas in the first place. It does nothing to put in larger fuel tanks if nobody can afford to fill them, and the people who most needed to evacuate seldom had cars to begin with.
Start with something that makes more sense, like mandating that gas stations must have a way to retrieve the fuel from their in-ground tanks when the electricity fails. That makes more sense than a larger gas tank in your car.
There's going to be plenty more beaurocracy and enough federal rules and reccomendations to choke a horse when all this is done - let's concentrate on the important ones and not something that means little and is worth even less. It scares me to think of what people are going to be screaming for all in the name of public safety after this - perhaps federalizing all agencies in state and local governments, conscription, siezing personal property (boats, buses, aircraft, etc.)? Let's not make this harder and more confusingly complex than we have to by overloading it with little unimportant issues. My first prediction is that whatever spending bill to fund disaster preparedness is passed after this is all over will contain more unrelated pork than it will have money that actually gets to the people who need it in order to minimize the potential tragedies of the next major event - and you can take that prediction to the bank!
Jonathan
Nomen---OH SHUT UP!!!
Nomen Nescio wrote: "During the evacuation of New Orleans, on-board fuel supply and on-road fuel availability was of considerable importance and worry to car travellers. It is feasible to build cars with fuel tanks of sufficient capacity to achieve 600 range with reserve.
Car makers consider 325 miles with reserve good enough. It isn't. Since car makers won't build cars this way, we need to force it down their throats with a Federal Law."
The problem is not how far a car can travel without refueling. The problem is many stations lost electrical power to run the pumps. I drove home to the area from Hots Springs, Arkansas. I anticipated having fuel problems once I arrived home. I started looking for a gas station in Vicksburg , MS and was not able to find one that had power. Got to Natchez, MS and found power on a one station and a line of cars 1/2 mile long trying to fuel up. Got to the second car in line and the power went out. I then head West down US 84 until I found a gas station with power. Only fuel they had left was the premium.
Made it home to find all the electricity was off and no one was selling fuel. The next day power was restored In a neighboring town and I waited
2.5 miles to fuel up. They owner of the station was handing out water to customers in line. He told me that he was able to secure two truck loads of fuel and that was it.Many gas stations are not open even though they have power because they can't get the fuel.
Nine refineries have been shut down in the affected areas. Gasoline supplies will be limited until all of them get back on line.The following facilities should be starting up Shell Chemical Mobile, Alabama, Motiva Convent, LA, Marathon Oil Garyville, LA. The following facilities will be starting up as soon as wind damage can be repaired Motiva/ Shell Chemical Norco, LA, Valerio, Norco, LA. The following will need extensive repair due to wind and flood damage: Conoco-Phillips in Belle Chase, LA, Chalmette Refining LLC Chalmette, LA, Shell Chemical St Rose, LA and Murphy Oil U.S.A. Inc. Meraux, LA.
Gasoline will be in short supply across the nation until the refineries start back up and at full operation. At present, Louisiana lost the refining capacity of 1,470703 barrels of crude a day. Normally Louisiana could refine 2,772,723 barrels of crude a day. So over half the refining capacity has been affected by the storm. See the facts at
Sarge
I don't believe this is the case across the nation. Here in Oregon gasoline prices have remained flat for the last month or two. I strongly suspect that the oil companies don't like to pay a lot of money to ship gasoline all over the place and that a lot more of it is refined and sold locally than most people would believe, and that the oil companies will admit. I also strongly suspect, going on what I know about how business is conducted in LA, that a lot of the oil companies down there are giving wildly exaggerated estimates of how short the fuel supplies are going to be over the next weeks and months, simply in an effort to keep fuel prices high to they can profiteer. Given that the oil companies own the current President, you won't see any tangible effort to stop the price gouging from the White House either, I am sorry to say.
Of course, I also know that saying all this is like rubbing salt in the wound to the people in that area that are reading this. But you should know that the media is lying to you, gas prices in the rest of the country haven't spiked like a Super Bowl football on a touchdown. (at least, not here) I just bought gas at a 76 station on Friday at $2.66 a gallon and it was within 7 cents a gallon of that a month ago.
Consider also that summer is over and people are mostly pretty much finished with their summer vacation driving, and gasoline sales during this period go down anyway.
Ted
Not really. Most people pay with credit or debit cards and don't carry $40 around in cash just to buy gasoline (what it costs to fill my tank) and when the power goes, those forms of payment are useless.
In any case, this is a matter better handled by the states. I'm sure that Montana doesen't have to worry much about massive hurricanes coming through and flooding it's major cities for weeks at a time.
Why? Nothing concrete was done after 911 other than invade two foreign countries, well this time there's nothing to invade.
Ted
Hum... My 2005 6.0L Power Stroke Diesel carries 59 gallons of diesel (Just shy of
420 pounds of diesel fuel). (Diesel weighs about 7.1 pounds per US gallon) (Gasoline weighs about 6.2 pounds per US gallon) Truck Gets 14.5 miles per gallon. That equals 855 miles per fill up. You don't need any Federal Law, what you are asking for is already on the market.At $3.15 per gallon, today's price, that's $185.85 to fill up from empty. I just spent $140 doing it yesterday. :-(
Why build bigger gas tanks? Why not mandate better fuel economy to get the same effect?
Yeah, and we need "reproduction permits" to cleanse the gene pool also............
how many you want ....... i have my printer working again :)
If cars had bigger fuel tanks they would collect more moisture. Most people would still run around with 5 gallons or less in them:)
Al
I made it from Niagara Falls to Dayton Ohio without filling up in my 99 windstar with a car top carrier, I couldnt imagine needing to flee further then that from anything.
"Ted Mittelstaedt" wrote: "I don't believe this is the case across the nation. Here in Oregon gasoline prices have remained flat for the last month or two. I strongly suspect that the oil companies don't like to pay a lot of money to ship gasoline all over the place and that a lot more of it is refined and sold locally than most people would believe, and that the oil companies will admit. I also strongly suspect, going on what I know about how business is conducted in LA, that a lot of the oil companies down there are giving wildly exaggerated estimates of how short the fuel supplies are going to be over the next weeks and months, simply in an effort to keep fuel prices high to they can profiteer. Given that the oil companies own the current President, you won't see any tangible effort to stop the price gouging from the White House either, I am sorry to say. Of course, I also know that saying all this is like rubbing salt in the wound to the people in that area that are reading this. But you should know that the media is lying to you, gas prices in the rest of the country haven't spiked like a Super Bowl football on a touchdown. (at least, not here) I just bought gas at a 76 station on Friday at $2.66 a gallon and it was within 7 cents a gallon of that a month ago. Consider also that summer is over and people are mostly pretty much finished with their summer vacation driving, and gasoline sales during this period go down anyway."
And you don't believe 9 less refineries producing gasoline will affect the price? Most of the gasoline refined in Louisiana does not supply your area in Oregon. The pipelines from this area supplies mostly the Northeast and immediate area. Gasoline supplied to the West Coast is supplied by plants in California 21 (refineries 2,017,401 barrels a day) and Washington (5 refineries 616,150 barrels a day). Louisiana refine 2,772,723 barrels a day, which is greater then both California and Washington together. So tell me how the supply of gasoline is not going to be reduced?
The last new refinery built was in 1976 in Garyville, LA. It is owned by Marathon Oil. We need more refineries to reduce the cost of gasoline or we need to reduce our need. Gasoline cannot be stored long term like crude oil. Several of your major oil companies have announced a price freeze to its jobbers on the cost of gasoline in the affected states of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama.
Texas 27 refineries and 4,627,611 barrels per day cannot increase production of gasoline they are all running at capacity. Mississippi 4 refineries at 364,800 barrels per day cannot increase production. Their biggest refinery in Pascagoula @ 325,000 BCD is shutdown due to damage.
There are other states that refine oil. Texas, Louisiana and California are the largest. The US gasoline consumption is about 9.0 million bbl/d. Lost of production from 8 to 9 refineries has to hurt the supply.
Before the Hurricane I paid 2.49 for a gallon of gasoline regular. Yesterday I filled up my truck and paid 2.54 a gallon. The biggest problem is finding stations that have fuel since the entire area of Jefferson Parish, Orleans Parish, and St Tammany Parish have no electricity. The people that live in theses areas are now trying to get home to see what's left or living with friends or relatives in the metro area. My household has increased by 2 and my sisters by 4 and my parents by 6 since our relatives have no place to go home or no electricity where they live at. My mother's home looks like a used car lot with 8 extra cars in her driveway.
Sarge
If the Federal Government designed cars, they would:
Come to think of it, they HAVE - the H-1 Hummer. Although for urban areas, I'd prefer the Bradley or the M1a1
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It is extra interesting to see Oregon gas prices are stable. In eastern Canada as soon as Katrina shut down the Gulf wells retail gas prices went up by 25 per cent (and Canada produces 100 per cent of what Canada produces
-- although for cheapness western Canadian oil is exported to the USA and we import US oil in eastern Canada.
Like that would stop the American Empire?
Vuarra
Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur. (That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)
Well... Oregon Fuel prices are NOT "Stable" !!!
Just before Katrina, #2 Diesel was around $2.80 per gallon, it is now (as of Saturday) at $3.15 per gallon. Gasoline has hovered right under these prices, rising right along with them...
Screw you. Damn Democrat. A once in fifty years event is no reason to extend the increasingly uncontrollable reach of the government. The phony "war" on big business is a completely Liberal tactic. Get yourself "Edjikated".
conserative spike
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