That is probably not true. The XL7500 Product Line is API Certified and
available in the latest grades (even for Ford's that spec 5W20). On the
other hand, it is not a "true" synthetic. It is one of the faux synthetics
like Castrol Syntec (heavily refined petroleum).
Amsoil may be great stuff, but the whole marketing scheme is a giant
turn-off. The Amsoil corporate site stays just on the right side of the
truth (everything is true if over hyped), but some of the individual dealers
who market the stuff don't have much of a grip on reality and don't mind
crossing over into the Twilight Zone when hyping the products.
I don't use it. I have read some tests that show it to be better than
many would like to believe.
Their multilevel marketing approach does not inspire credibility,
for me at least.
I tried to change the oil in a girlfriend's car once in which Amsoil
was used for long change intervals. Crap looked like chocolate
Now, had reasonable change intervals been used, it might have
come out much better.
If someone drives only five to ten minutes average per cold startup, the
result will eventually, indeed, be chocolate pudding..the 'chocolate'
part being due to condensated water not 'boiled out'and probable engine
damage as a result.. and ANY synthetic a waste of money .
For long change intervals, Mobil 1 works every bit as well as needed...
and you can buy it anywhere, cheaper. Change filters at 5000.
Oil Change rule of thumb:
Grocery getter (frequent, short trip driver) - every three months, good
Dino oil (Valvoline). The FAMOUS brands start to break down at or before
3000, ALL brands will hold water. And mileage driven means nothing.
Long commuter (at least 30 minutes running cycle per startup) use a REAL
synthetic, change at 15,000- filter at 5,000.
Any engine malfunction resulting in rich mixture causing gas
contamination calls for immediate oil change, no matter what.
Any glycol contamination: ditto.
Amsoil is for those who like 'cultish' things.
Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!
This was not her problem. She drove long miles at highway speed.
I don't presently use synthetics, and if I did I would change oil
and filter at 3000 miles, just like I do now. Assurance that you can
get away with long change intervals is wasted on me. I will not likely
ever follow that path.
She ran hers to 15,000 miles between changes. No glycol contamination,
no condensation.....just Amsoil. And, as it was her car, and her
I didn't choose to interfere.
With OCIs that long I would be real nervous without either periodic (5K
miles?) filter changes and/or a bypass filter. But that said a good
synthetic really should be able to go 15K miles without issues, I
suspect other problems with that engine like a nonfunctional PCV valve?
Personally, I change my oil every 5K (Porsche 944) with either Mobil 1
5W40 or Rotella T syn 5W40 even though the owner's manual says 7500.
Maybe I'm being over-cautious, but I can't be arsed to mess with used
oil analyses and without same I just get nervous.
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
I don't waste my time with oil analyses either.
No, she had no PCV problems. Nothing wrong with the engine, just 15,000
mile change intervals, as far as I could determine.
Amsoil must have a heavy additive package load. I think I may have read
somewhere. Lots of oils will 'cook' and decompose with time and
we are led to believe. A lot of the damage caused to Toyota, VW, and
engines has been laid to this, although some suggest that the engine design
and PCV specifications play a strong part.
Anyone who wants can use Amsoil and a lot swear by it. Many of the snake
oil comments on this group are based on hearsay, I suspect, rather than
hand experience with the product. I am fairly open minded on the subject,
choose not to use the product myself.
my snake oil comment was based on the fact that when a dealer tried to sell
it to me, and me on it, he handed me a "comparison" sheet of different oils,
and amsoil synthetic was at the absolute bottom of the list when compared to
all the other "inferior" brands when it came to the A.P.I. ratings. I
pointed this little fact out to him and his answer was "oh, those ratings
don't mean anything". for the record, the valvoline all fleet plus that I
had always used was at the top of the A.P.I. ratings.
That is like on their website where it says when your engine blows up
because of using bad or 'unapproved' oil and the maker refuses the
warranty because you used 'snake oil', you can ship the engine to them
and 'if' they decide it was indeed crappy oil, they will honor the
Ya right, I'll bet 'their' diagnosis will always be a bad part, never
their crappy oil.
I certainly wasnt making light of your comment. Their claims are one thing,
their documentation somewhat less.
Some oil 'tests' were being run and were available online. As I remember
the Amsoil was holding its own pretty well, BUT tests like that should be
run by a certified testing laboratory to have any real credibility.
As I said, I am open minded (but not empty headed;>)
The API have traditionally set a *lower* limit on oil quality below which is
unacceptable. There are always two current ratings, one being the latest and
improved while the other is the previous standard which is being run-out.
Besides there being a cost to being certified a lack of certification might
be because a higher level of certain elements are included in the oil than
are set by the standard. This might not be a bad thing for engine wear but
might be detrimental to catalyst life if used and burnt in a worn engine for
In general there are plenty of superior oils that do meet and exceed API
ratings. There is no better oil than Mobil1 0w/40. Other viscosity grades of
M1 do not have the same chemistry and are therefore not quite as good for
long drain intervals. The 15w/50 is also superior but the viscosity is not
suitable for most engines. This advice only holds good for M1 and other
brands differ but plenty of brands do produce equivalent oils.
Your post implies that Mobil 1 does not meet or exceed API ratings. That is
simply not true. You do so because you're trying to bring AmSoil up to the
level of Mobil 1. You mention the inferiority of AmSoil, then try to say,
essentially, that Mobil 1 is the same. That's just not accurate.
Your argument in defense of AmSoil is that it doesn't meet API ratings
because it's better. That's silly. That's why the term is "meet or
exceed." AmSoil may have more "stuff" than the ratings require, but it
doesn't meet the minimums for protection, and therefore doesn't even submit
its snakeoil for approval.
No No I didn't mean to imply that at all. It was obviously clumsily written.
On the contarary, Amsoil is the only oil I know of that doesn't meet minimum
You do so because you're trying to bring AmSoil up to the
Although not all M1 grades are to the same standard all meet API but not all
meet the exacting extended drain interval standards of mainly European
manufacturers. All M1 oils have a superb base oil and quality standard but
do not have the additive package to disperse contaminants for those extended
intervals of 15000 miles and above.
I am not a defender of amsoil but do know something of their oil. They may
well exceed the API standard by some margin except for a specific area that
I explained which prevents accreditation. Just because it cannot be approved
for the API standard does not automatically infer that it is inferior
[though some oils might well be inferior so watch out].
AmSoil may have more "stuff" than the ratings require, but it
I believe Amsoil is better oil than most API approved oil but I have no
reason to suppose it is any better than the latest high performance oils
from other manufacturers that meet mb229.5 or equivilent. Personally I would
use these in preference to any Amsoil product.
Absolutely no reason to use any of these superior oils [amsoil, M1 0w/40 or
otherwise] unless their potential can be and is exploited.
The FACT is Amsoil does not have an API specifcation.
This MAY be because it does not meet the spec, or it MAY be they are
too whatever to submit their oil for testing. Either way, the product
is an unknown entity - and if I can not be assured it meets the
minimum requirements and will not cause problems in my engine I will
NOT pay their premium price for their product. If I want to run a
synthentic oil, which up to this point I have not determined to be a
significant advantage to me, I will use one that meets and excedes all
specificatioons called for by the manufacturer of my engine. At this
point, this means an API spec.
I may use a different viscosity than called for by the manufacturer -
one that I feel comfortable with for my operating conditions. I feel
I'm qualified to make that decision for myself and live with any
consequences because viscosity is something that is reasonably easily
understood, where the API specs are a bit more complex. I'm willing to
trade off a small percentage of fuel economy for the aditional
protection I believe my engine recieves from my choice of oil.
I won't try to convince anyone that they should do the same.
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ****** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from
Just because it doesn't meet API specifications does not mean that it cannot
be leagues better than it. It is different in that it doesn't conform. It
might be a far superior lubricant but if used in an already worn engine it
might damage the catilyst. I'm not saying that is the reason for non
conformation but it could be, so the 'snake oil' comment is not valid. It is
true that conformation and accreditation to API standards prevents snake oil
being sold and is therefore a 'good thing' but for oil enthusiasts who may
want the very best without compromise then different standards may be more
Remember that the API have traditionally set the lowest standard for oil
below which is unacceptable. Nothing to stop somebody producing a far
superior oil though it would be better if the superior oil also passed all
parameters required to pass the API standard as well. This would stop any
confusion. All standards are a compromise, none more so than the API minimal
standards. Amsoil use a different set of compromises for some of their
range. Hooray for variety and nonconformity.
And I will probably never use their oil.
It may be a superior lubricant but may have a technical aspect like too much
phosphate or zinc which is above the limit set for emission tests when burnt
in significant quantity in a worn engine. That is just one example.
The API is just one standard setting body. There are many others which are
less well known such as the ACEA and the Japanese one whose name escapes me
plus engine manufactuers own standards such as Mercedes Benz who actually
set high performance standards upon which other superior standards are based
including the ACEA international ones.
Personally I would, as I suspect you would, stick with an oil that meets
higher standards as well as API standards rather than use one that does not
Now if I was track racing then many aspects of the API compromise could be
ignored and I would have no hesitation in using the Amsoil compromise which
is biassed towards performance [or so they claim]. The paradox is that since
Amsoil does is not accredited with API certification it is unlikely to meet
any higher *official* standard either so no one really knows how good or bad
Amsoil really is, except by taking their word for it.
I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt by taking their word for it
that it is a very good oil but not to the extent that I would use it in any
of my vehicles.
I hope that explains how an oil can be excellent without being API
accredited and also why I would not generally choose to use it given a
choice of other oils that actually meet exceptionally high standards such as
mb229.5 which sets the present benchmark and which also meets API lower
There is absolutely no point in using this kind of oil [an extended drain
ultra high performance oil] whether from
Castrol/Shell/Fuchs/vehicleownbrand, unless the potential is exploited in
drain interval terms. Anything under 10,000 miles in a temperate climate and
you might as well use a good dino oil.
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.