amsoil - good or bad?

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any opinions on Amsoil?

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snake oil. it don't meet any of the specifications or certifications for any of my vehicles.

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That is probably not true. The XL7500 Product Line is API Certified and available in the latest grades (even for Ford's that spec 5W20). On the other hand, it is not a "true" synthetic. It is one of the faux synthetics like Castrol Syntec (heavily refined petroleum).
Amsoil may be great stuff, but the whole marketing scheme is a giant turn-off. The Amsoil corporate site stays just on the right side of the truth (everything is true if over hyped), but some of the individual dealers who market the stuff don't have much of a grip on reality and don't mind crossing over into the Twilight Zone when hyping the products.
Ed
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I don't use it. I have read some tests that show it to be better than many would like to believe.
Their multilevel marketing approach does not inspire credibility, for me at least.
I tried to change the oil in a girlfriend's car once in which Amsoil was used for long change intervals. Crap looked like chocolate pudding.
Now, had reasonable change intervals been used, it might have come out much better.
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If someone drives only five to ten minutes average per cold startup, the result will eventually, indeed, be chocolate pudding..the 'chocolate' part being due to condensated water not 'boiled out'and probable engine damage as a result.. and ANY synthetic a waste of money .
For long change intervals, Mobil 1 works every bit as well as needed... and you can buy it anywhere, cheaper. Change filters at 5000.
Oil Change rule of thumb:
Grocery getter (frequent, short trip driver) - every three months, good Dino oil (Valvoline). The FAMOUS brands start to break down at or before 3000, ALL brands will hold water. And mileage driven means nothing.
Long commuter (at least 30 minutes running cycle per startup) use a REAL synthetic, change at 15,000- filter at 5,000.
Any engine malfunction resulting in rich mixture causing gas contamination calls for immediate oil change, no matter what.
Any glycol contamination: ditto.
Amsoil is for those who like 'cultish' things.
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*************************************************** This was not her problem. She drove long miles at highway speed. ***************************************************

*************************************************** I don't presently use synthetics, and if I did I would change oil and filter at 3000 miles, just like I do now. Assurance that you can get away with long change intervals is wasted on me. I will not likely ever follow that path.
She ran hers to 15,000 miles between changes. No glycol contamination, no condensation.....just Amsoil. And, as it was her car, and her philosophy, I didn't choose to interfere.
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.nix wrote:

With OCIs that long I would be real nervous without either periodic (5K miles?) filter changes and/or a bypass filter. But that said a good synthetic really should be able to go 15K miles without issues, I suspect other problems with that engine like a nonfunctional PCV valve?
Personally, I change my oil every 5K (Porsche 944) with either Mobil 1 5W40 or Rotella T syn 5W40 even though the owner's manual says 7500. Maybe I'm being over-cautious, but I can't be arsed to mess with used oil analyses and without same I just get nervous.
nate
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I don't waste my time with oil analyses either.
No, she had no PCV problems. Nothing wrong with the engine, just 15,000 mile change intervals, as far as I could determine.
Amsoil must have a heavy additive package load. I think I may have read that somewhere. Lots of oils will 'cook' and decompose with time and temperature, we are led to believe. A lot of the damage caused to Toyota, VW, and similar engines has been laid to this, although some suggest that the engine design and PCV specifications play a strong part.
Anyone who wants can use Amsoil and a lot swear by it. Many of the snake oil comments on this group are based on hearsay, I suspect, rather than first hand experience with the product. I am fairly open minded on the subject, but choose not to use the product myself.
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my snake oil comment was based on the fact that when a dealer tried to sell it to me, and me on it, he handed me a "comparison" sheet of different oils, and amsoil synthetic was at the absolute bottom of the list when compared to all the other "inferior" brands when it came to the A.P.I. ratings. I pointed this little fact out to him and his answer was "oh, those ratings don't mean anything". for the record, the valvoline all fleet plus that I had always used was at the top of the A.P.I. ratings.

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That is like on their website where it says when your engine blows up because of using bad or 'unapproved' oil and the maker refuses the warranty because you used 'snake oil', you can ship the engine to them and 'if' they decide it was indeed crappy oil, they will honor the warranty. LOL!
Ya right, I'll bet 'their' diagnosis will always be a bad part, never their crappy oil.
Mike
tom wrote:

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I certainly wasnt making light of your comment. Their claims are one thing, their documentation somewhat less.
Some oil 'tests' were being run and were available online. As I remember it, the Amsoil was holding its own pretty well, BUT tests like that should be run by a certified testing laboratory to have any real credibility.
As I said, I am open minded (but not empty headed;>)
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The API have traditionally set a *lower* limit on oil quality below which is unacceptable. There are always two current ratings, one being the latest and improved while the other is the previous standard which is being run-out. Besides there being a cost to being certified a lack of certification might be because a higher level of certain elements are included in the oil than are set by the standard. This might not be a bad thing for engine wear but might be detrimental to catalyst life if used and burnt in a worn engine for instance.
In general there are plenty of superior oils that do meet and exceed API ratings. There is no better oil than Mobil1 0w/40. Other viscosity grades of M1 do not have the same chemistry and are therefore not quite as good for long drain intervals. The 15w/50 is also superior but the viscosity is not suitable for most engines. This advice only holds good for M1 and other brands differ but plenty of brands do produce equivalent oils.
Huw
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Your post implies that Mobil 1 does not meet or exceed API ratings. That is simply not true. You do so because you're trying to bring AmSoil up to the level of Mobil 1. You mention the inferiority of AmSoil, then try to say, essentially, that Mobil 1 is the same. That's just not accurate.
Your argument in defense of AmSoil is that it doesn't meet API ratings because it's better. That's silly. That's why the term is "meet or exceed." AmSoil may have more "stuff" than the ratings require, but it doesn't meet the minimums for protection, and therefore doesn't even submit its snakeoil for approval.
CJB
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No No I didn't mean to imply that at all. It was obviously clumsily written. On the contarary, Amsoil is the only oil I know of that doesn't meet minimum API standards.
You do so because you're trying to bring AmSoil up to the

See above. Although not all M1 grades are to the same standard all meet API but not all meet the exacting extended drain interval standards of mainly European manufacturers. All M1 oils have a superb base oil and quality standard but do not have the additive package to disperse contaminants for those extended intervals of 15000 miles and above.

I am not a defender of amsoil but do know something of their oil. They may well exceed the API standard by some margin except for a specific area that I explained which prevents accreditation. Just because it cannot be approved for the API standard does not automatically infer that it is inferior [though some oils might well be inferior so watch out].
AmSoil may have more "stuff" than the ratings require, but it

I believe Amsoil is better oil than most API approved oil but I have no reason to suppose it is any better than the latest high performance oils from other manufacturers that meet mb229.5 or equivilent. Personally I would use these in preference to any Amsoil product.
Absolutely no reason to use any of these superior oils [amsoil, M1 0w/40 or otherwise] unless their potential can be and is exploited.
Huw
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wrote:

This MAY be because it does not meet the spec, or it MAY be they are too whatever to submit their oil for testing. Either way, the product is an unknown entity - and if I can not be assured it meets the minimum requirements and will not cause problems in my engine I will NOT pay their premium price for their product. If I want to run a synthentic oil, which up to this point I have not determined to be a significant advantage to me, I will use one that meets and excedes all specificatioons called for by the manufacturer of my engine. At this point, this means an API spec. I may use a different viscosity than called for by the manufacturer - one that I feel comfortable with for my operating conditions. I feel I'm qualified to make that decision for myself and live with any consequences because viscosity is something that is reasonably easily understood, where the API specs are a bit more complex. I'm willing to trade off a small percentage of fuel economy for the aditional protection I believe my engine recieves from my choice of oil.
I won't try to convince anyone that they should do the same. *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com *** *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***
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<clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

That AmSoil doesn't even meet minimum specs was entirely my point. We agree.
CJB
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"That AmSoil doesn't even meet minimum specs was entirely my point. We agree. CJB"
and that was the reason for my snake oil comment also
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tom wrote:

Just because it doesn't meet API specifications does not mean that it cannot be leagues better than it. It is different in that it doesn't conform. It might be a far superior lubricant but if used in an already worn engine it might damage the catilyst. I'm not saying that is the reason for non conformation but it could be, so the 'snake oil' comment is not valid. It is true that conformation and accreditation to API standards prevents snake oil being sold and is therefore a 'good thing' but for oil enthusiasts who may want the very best without compromise then different standards may be more important. Remember that the API have traditionally set the lowest standard for oil below which is unacceptable. Nothing to stop somebody producing a far superior oil though it would be better if the superior oil also passed all parameters required to pass the API standard as well. This would stop any confusion. All standards are a compromise, none more so than the API minimal standards. Amsoil use a different set of compromises for some of their range. Hooray for variety and nonconformity. And I will probably never use their oil.
Huw Huw
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your logic is over my head. if api certification is "the lowest standard for oil below which is unacceptable. ", and amsoil does not meet api certification, how can it be a far superior oil??

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tom wrote:

It may be a superior lubricant but may have a technical aspect like too much phosphate or zinc which is above the limit set for emission tests when burnt in significant quantity in a worn engine. That is just one example.
The API is just one standard setting body. There are many others which are less well known such as the ACEA and the Japanese one whose name escapes me plus engine manufactuers own standards such as Mercedes Benz who actually set high performance standards upon which other superior standards are based including the ACEA international ones. Personally I would, as I suspect you would, stick with an oil that meets higher standards as well as API standards rather than use one that does not meet API. Now if I was track racing then many aspects of the API compromise could be ignored and I would have no hesitation in using the Amsoil compromise which is biassed towards performance [or so they claim]. The paradox is that since Amsoil does is not accredited with API certification it is unlikely to meet any higher *official* standard either so no one really knows how good or bad Amsoil really is, except by taking their word for it. I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt by taking their word for it that it is a very good oil but not to the extent that I would use it in any of my vehicles.
I hope that explains how an oil can be excellent without being API accredited and also why I would not generally choose to use it given a choice of other oils that actually meet exceptionally high standards such as mb229.5 which sets the present benchmark and which also meets API lower standards. There is absolutely no point in using this kind of oil [an extended drain ultra high performance oil] whether from Castrol/Shell/Fuchs/vehicleownbrand, unless the potential is exploited in drain interval terms. Anything under 10,000 miles in a temperate climate and you might as well use a good dino oil.
Huw
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