Bias Against Domestic Cars

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What do you mean please explain? Can't you read? Look at the '89 4-cylinders for instance. The Ford's have extra black dots (or other lower ratings) the Mazda 626 doesn't. (Cooling, electrical, A/C, clutch, integrity, paint-trim) Why is the Ford version rated worse? They were made in the same plant with the same platform parts.
CR did rate the Mazda auto-trans worse, which is also wrong, being the same unit as the Ford.
Derek
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Derek Gee wrote:

It could be the expectations of the cars. In addition, a different group of people might be more likely to buy Mazdas than Fords, leading to different responses.
Jeff
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Derek Gee wrote:

Can't you read? For some components, the 626 rated worse than the Probe.

Why the difference then? I'm going to blame small survey samples, which tend to lead to wider variations in averages -- notice the * in some spots, indicating insufficient data.
You're not doing a Robert McNamara on statistics, are you? ;)
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Only the auto trans on the year I cited. Looking at some of the other years, the pattern I cited generally holds. Only the Mazda auto-trans seems to get picked on.

Given how widely read and widely responded to that CR survey is, I doubt if small survey samples are the problem, but I don't have access to the raw numbers to prove that.
Derek
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Derek Gee wrote:

CR itself often says samples are too small for valid results, and the smaller the samples, generally the greater the variations.
You still haven't shown CR having a bias against American brands.
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Sure I have. They totally screwed the Ford Probe versus the Mazda 626, whether intentionally or not, and FAILED to correct the statistics. It's obvious something was wrong, but they did nothing for years - until enough people complained and they finally got burned by a vehicle being unjustly given a "reliable" rating ahead of having any data to prove that it was. Total bullcrap. The only vehicles that were given the false ratings were Japanese.
Derek
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I was actually complaining about the Forbes article and how it used the CR data. But as to your comment, the editors at CR may be biased, but they are not stupid.
Ed

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larry moe 'n curly wrote:

Because there's never been even the slightest bit of bias shown in Consumer Reports' reviews. These complaints have always been sour grapes.
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How about other products? What CR calls a design defect, I've often called a good feature. Their expectations differ too much from mine to be regarded as meaningful.
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On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:21:51 -0500, Ed Pawlowski fired up the etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:

Valid point.
As an example, back in the '80s when I read CR, I always noticed them mentioning "cheap plastic" on GM interiors. I never knew what cheap plastic meant as compared to non-cheap or expensive plastic. It is all plastic.
In any case, I drove to work in my Chevy Avalanche, and then hopped into a sub-compact Prius for a work trip with some of my staff. I drove the Prius about twenty miles, which was something like 45 minutes one way and about 30 the other way.
I see no difference between the car and my truck in terms of apparent build quality. Granted the Prius is a low-end subcompact as compared to my mid-level Avalanche. But the build quality appears about the same.
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Consumer Reports values safety, reliability, and value. It's true that there are other aspects of vehicles (and other products) that are often more important to buyers than those three characteristics. I'd have never bought several of the vehicles that I've purchased if I went mainly by safety, reliability, and value. But that doesn't mean that Consumer Reports is biased.
The most amusing claims of bias are when people get upset about their surveys which ask owners of the product to rate the product that they've purchased. Whether it's vehicles or wireless service, there's no reason to believe that the owner or user of one product or service is more or less likely to lie about their experience with the product or service than the owner of a different product or service.
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wrote in message

Sure they are, you even said so, just in different words - "Consumer Reports values safety, reliability, and value."

I am not saying that anyone is lying about there responses. I am arguing that the sample group is not statistically sounds and that it is likely that the people who respond to the surveys are likely to parrot the CR opinons. This is not lying, it is human nature at work.
Ed
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C. E. White wrote:

No, they're not biased because they evaluate all of the vehicles to the same set of standards.

The sample size is very large. The questions on the surveys are very specific, asking about problems that the owner has had with the vehicle. They aren't general touchy-feely questions where the owner has the opportunity to parrot CR's evaluations and recommendations. The surveys about reliability and the articles evaluating the products are two very different animals.
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Sure there's been bias. I've seen it with autos and I've seen with computer reviews from many years ago. I've written to them about it, and I know they've received many subscription cancellations due to their abuse of the Big Three. I suspect that's why in the last few years they've begun to spell out more carefully the differences between the autos, and stop the practice of granting automatic Predicted Reliability ratings based on past performance. No new vehicle should be given a rating until after a year has passed and data has been gathered.
Derek
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Derek Gee wrote:

LOL, sure you do.
Even when there are two very similar vehicles with different nameplates, there are valid reasons for differences in the results of the CR surveys of owners.
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Of course there are reasons, one is that the survey is faulty, another is that the CR survey is basically an opinion poll, not a data collection exercise.
Ed
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Might it also be that these types of vehicles, although similar, are not identical, and that they might actually be viewed differently by the buyer? Dealership handling of problems and warranty issues can certainly have a major impact on the degree of satisfaction one might have with the unit.
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hls wrote:
<snip>

It's those things, plus it's the type of buyer that buys say a Corolla verus a Prizm, and how they take care of the vehicle. Toyota buyers tend to me more highly educated, higher income, and more likely to follow the maintenance schedule, which would result in fewer Corolla problems.
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I hope you don't really believe that. If you do I think your ego and elitist attitude need some adjustment, your blanket statement is beyond believeable sounds like a teenager.
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Actually Toyota buyers DO think they are smarter than the average new vehicle buyer.
When I was in retail that was one of the things we loved about them, it made is easy for us to get an extra 20% to 30% out of them when we sold them a car than we could get from the buyers in our domestic brand stores LOL

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