Can Anything Stop Toyota?

Page 4 of 16  
vlj wrote:


VLJ, next time, dont hold back and tell us how you feel. Hey, I bet you can get a new Suburban for about $3000 less than a Sequoia, using Mikes logic, its a good value, but he doesnt keep anything out of the 3/36 warranty.
--








SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
sez:

I have owned GM all my life and my experience is just the contrary. These cars last well into the 300 000 kms without major power train repairs. In fact I have ever had a power train problem with a GM although I have run them into the ground !
I currently own a Lexus es300 and an Oldsmobile 88. In terms of quietness, smooth ride, reliability, power, and fuel economy, my 88 is better even though it has over 300 000kms, and the Lexus only 200 000.
When the GM needs attention, the price is always reasonable. With the Lexus, it is always shocking.
The Lexus is a fine car with a great image, and I love it. But larger GMs are better value if bang for the buck is what you are looking for. In terms of value, from my experience, large GM cars are second to none. A.Z.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Yeah, If I'm going to buy a piece of shit, I want to get a good deal on it!
--






SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
alt.autos.ford,alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.toyota

I don't know anyone who compares family sedans by how fast they can go. And of course no one in their right mind would ever pay $19K for a new Stratus.
At least in California, new Toyotas are so agressively priced that used ones are usually a bad deal. The type of person that gets rid of a recent vintage Toyota after 1-3 years is the same type of person that overpaid for the car new and expects to get a lot for it used, often expecting to get more for a one year old vehicle than a savvy buyer would pay for a new vehicle. Fortunately, there are enough buyers that believe that they have to pay MSRP for a new Toyota, so there is a ready market for overpriced used Toyotas. So there are rarely any good deals in used Toyotas (or Hondas or Acuras).
Toyota has held the line on prices for many years, and street prices have actually come down, at least in California. I paid a tad under $17K for a Camry LE six years ago (a good deal at the time, about $1500 under invoice); now I can buy a 2004 Camry LE for $16K! Of course the newer Camry's have been decontented in a big way, so you're getting less for the lower pirce as well. Not sure if I will buy any more Toyotas, they seem to have gotten a little too cocky.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

And
Tell that to Nissan Maxima owners. That's the primary reason *I* bought one, at least. :)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote in

The Maxima fits into the "sport sedan" category, along with the BMW 5 series, the Saab 9-5, and some of the Audis, more than the family sedan category. Nissan's mid-size family sedan is the Altima. Adding a V6 to a Camry or Accord doesn't turn it into a sport sedan.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 06:11:17 GMT, "Steven M. Scharf"

I'm in the process of shopping, I'm having a tough time choosing between the Accord V6 and 04 Grand Prix. I want something that is safe for my son *and* moves like a greased arrow.
I found that adding a 6 to an Accord just makes it silkier in the twisties. It is already a sport sedan. However, I'll agree with you an the Camry. Vuarra
Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur. (That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Or is it? Parts do wear out and they are costly on Toyotas.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Check Consumer Reports. New Camry repair record just average. Depreciation rates on many Toyotas is just average. The days of high Toyota quality and high re-sale may be ending.

up for

will be

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Find a replacement for Consumer Reports.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Philip" wrote:

LOL - you have to be kidding. For years I thought Consumer Reports was owned by Toyota. Now they start telling the truth about Toyotas and you want to dump them?
Ed
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In being of bellicose mind posted:

In Ed's mind:
A negative review = telling the truth. A positive reviiew = propaganda.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Philip" wrote:

You must be reading someone else's mind.
What I really think -
Most US car magazines never print truly negative reviews. Advertising revenue is all important and if you trash cars that need to be trashed you'll lose revenue, plus you won't get all expenses paid invitations to the various manufacturer's cool events. Even when cars are truly rotten, they always find a few good things to say. In comparison tests where they have to have a winner, the company that buys the most ads is more likely to win. The only exception is that German cars usually win because that is what the readers expect.
Consumers Report is the one US exception to this behavior. I rarely agree with their opinions. And in the end, despite all their claims to unbiased evaluations, that is all that their ratings reflect. For at least the last 20 years they have largely favored Japanese cars. I am sure they have their reasons. However, my own personal experiences with numerous Japanese cars is so far off of theirs that I don't pay much attention to their opinions any more. They have shown such favoritism to Toyotas (for whatever reason) that I think it is ironic that, because of a few less than glowing reviews, you said to dump the magazine.
Back when I was younger I used to subscribe to a couple of British car magazines. They were very much different that US magazines. Instead of always saying nice thing about everybody's cars, they had no problem at all in trashing certain cars. In general, the further the manufacturer's headquarters was from London, the worse they rated the car. Even while British Leyland was sinking under the waves, they tended to praise the BL products. To them the Rover 3500 was a winner. I still enjoyed the reviews because I am a natural cynic and appreciate criticism instead of faint praise. I had no trouble separating out chauvinism from facts.
Ed
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In being of bellicose mind posted:

I said "dump the magazine" back in the early '70's after the purchase of a 1972 Chrysler. CR has the freedom to apply their editoral prejudice to all their product evaluations. I recognize that fact too. To claim they are objective and / or have similar evaluation priorities as I do has not been evident to me. Evaluations by definition are subjective.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Philip wrote:

I believe that I have had better than average service from product purchases because I have been a rather faithful subscriber to Consumer's Union. About the only product that has not done well is my '94 T-Bird. But, not being clairevoyant, CU could not report that the tranny and disc brakes were deficient until after those problems showed up a few thousand miles after production.
I disagree with your "evaluations" statement. If I were to evaluate two brands of vaccuum bottles, I could certainly objectively evaluate: that one holds four onces more than the other; one loses heat at a rate two degrees per hour faster than the other; one comes with a carrying handle while one does not; etc. To say that one has a prettier color would be, of course, subjective. I have never known CU to rate anything subjectively.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In being of bellicose mind posted:

Then by the definition of the word "subjective", CU must never have made a judgment about a test subject. In fact, CU does make judgments about everything they test.
Objective: Expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived WITHOUT distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Philip wrote:

I am unable to distinguish whether it is your logic, your semantics or both, but your message is somewhat obscure to me.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In being of bellicose mind posted:

If you cannot distinguish subjective from objective.... especially after you were given the definitions of both words, then everything you see in print probably seems "true." Can't help you further.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Philip wrote:

My failure to grasp your message was from YOUR logic and YOUR semantics, such as they are. And you're probably correct. You probably are unable to clarify it for me.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Farley @nonymous" wrote:

They recently rated wines. How can that be anything but subjective?
Ed
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.