Competition for the Ford Hybird Escape

DaimlerChrysler, GM to Team Up on Engines
By JOHN PORRETTO AP Auto Writer
DETROIT (AP) - General Motors Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG, two of the world's biggest automakers, are teaming up to develop fuel-saving hybrid
technology for a range of vehicles that will help them compete with hybrid-vehicle leaders Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co.
GM, the world's largest automaker, and its German-American rival have signed a memorandum of understanding and intend to enter into a definitive agreement early next year, the two companies said Monday. No financial details were disclosed.
"Our planned cooperation will draw on the technical expertise of two of the largest auto companies in the world," DaimlerChrysler board member Thomas Weber said in a news release. "The result is expected to be a series of strong hybrid propulsion systems that will serve as a solution for our alternative powertrain needs."
Hybrids draw power from two energy sources, typically a gas or diesel engine combined with an electric motor. Demand has grown worldwide because of concerns about the dangers of global warming and decreasing natural fuel supplies.
GM and Chrysler both sell a small number of "mild" hybrid pickups, but the systems are less advanced than those used on cars sold by Toyota and Honda.
Toyota, Japan's No. 1 automaker, said in October it would double the allocation of Prius hybrid cars for the U.S. market in 2005, part of a companywide goal to sell 300,000 gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles worldwide by the end of next year. The announcement coincided with the sale of the 100,000th Prius in the United States, where they went on sale in the summer of 2000.
Honda last week began selling its third hybrid car in the United States, a high-performance version of its popular Accord sedan.
In early August, Ford Motor Co. began producing a hybrid version of its Escape SUV, the world's first gas-electric hybrid SUV.
GM and DaimlerChrysler have been working independently on their own hybrid propulsion systems for their range of passenger vehicles. The jointly built "two-mode" hybrid system will be used in GM, Chrysler and Mercedes vehicles. Variants planned include rear- and front-wheel-drive versions for cars, trucks and other vehicles.
In their statement, GM and DaimlerChrysler said today's typical single-mode hybrid systems rely on much-larger electric motors than are needed in their patent-protected two-mode system.
Tom Stephens, GM's group vice president for powertrains, called the two-mode design "the optimal merging of full hybrid and state-of-the-art automatic transmission technologies."
"This system will reduce fuel consumption at highway speeds much more effectively than available single-mode systems and achieve at least a 25 percent improvement in composite fuel economy in full-size truck applications," Stephens said.
The two-mode system will be mated to different engines, and the respective vehicle programs will have unique performance dynamics and calibration.
Yet another $.02 worth from a proud owner of a 2001 Ranger 4x4 and a 1970 Mach 1 351C @ http://community.webshots.com/album/18644819fHAehGJAjt
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Grover C. McCoury III wrote:

This just like the SUV RUSH. Pretty much a manufacturer manufactured, market driven bunch of meaningless crap. Fact is, with the exception of a miniscule amount of energy derived from braking, ALL power - that's ALL POWER for these hybrids comes from gasoline. Further, as one would expect from the FEDs, hybrid MPG estimates are wildly optimistic. Then there's the FACT that hybrids are ill-suited for non-temperate climate use. Personally, I like this sort of action. While I would never own a ponderous, tippy handling SUV, the race to a hybrids might leave some nice car buys behind.
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There is a surprising amount of power to be recaptured from braking and coasting. My Honda Civic Hybrid shuts down the valve train on three cylinders when coasting so that more energy can be captured by regeneration. If you just eyeball the assist-charge meter, knowing that the range is 15HP, there are many times when 10HP is being captured, and any braking causes it to go to full scale.
But that's not the magic in the Honda system. The magic is that the electric is there to assist my little gas motor when I need it. When the engine is off peak production RPM, the CVT changes the RPM, and the electric provides assistance. For normal driving, my 1300cc gas motor provides more and smoother power than the 1700cc engine in other Civics. At a highway cruise at 70mph, my little motor is getting 52mpg. There's no hybrid active at that time, just the efficiency of a little motor. The little motor by itself, without hybrid, doesn't offer overall acceptable performance, or there would be more Chevy Metros on the road.
My Ford Escape Hybrid has a different drive system. Puttering around the parking lot at the mall, it stays on electric for a long time. In tight city traffic, it will stay on electric for a few blocks, start up the gas motor for 15-20 seconds, and shut off again. My wife can't tell. I can just feel a bump as the engine torques over. The exceedingly high EPA measurements could probably be achieved if you stayed in Manhattan the whole time.
http://www.new-cars.com/news/040407-ford-escape-hybrid.html "After being driven non-stop for 37 hours as part of an extreme driving test throughout Manhattan, taking on traffic congestion, morning and evening rush hours, the all-new 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid traveled an amazing 576 miles on a single tank of gas during this epic drive. The Escape Hybrid, the world's first hybrid sport utility vehicle, averaged more than 38 miles per gallon. "
My Escape is getting 30.5 in city driving, 26 overall. I haven't had it on the highway yet.
With my Civic I have seen 100 mile stretches of 80 mph cruise with A/C at 42mpg. I have seen 20 mile stretches at 45mph at 65mpg.
2003 Civic Hybrid SULEV CVT automatic. San Jose, CA to Benicia, CA. 60mph cruise control, 59.0 miles, 59.0 mpg. 70mph cruise control, 59.0 miles, 52.0 mpg. http://www.rahul.net/dold/clarence/Honda_Mileage.htm
The Civic gas motor doesn't seem to turn off at stops if the outside temperature is below 40. I've driven in 20 degree weather. The charge/assist seems normal, and the mileage seems normal, except for the fact that the A/C, used for defrost, knocks 2-3 mpg off. This is 5%, which might go unnoticed in a car that only gets 10mpg to begin with.
Do I think hybrid is a scam? No. I have two now. Do I think the GM hybrid is competition for the Ford Escape Hybrid? I've been waiting for the Escape to come out for two years, it is finally here. If the GM eventually arrives, it may be direct competition, just like their current line is competitive with non-hybrid Fords.
Toyota says all of their cars will have Hybrid as an option by 2012. What's wrong with hybrid? If it doesn't work in sub-zero temperatures, then it won't sell well in sub-zero states. It certainly works well for me in the Honda. The Escape is a huge improvement over the 13mpg Durango that I had before. If the Dodge Durango ever arrives in Hybrid form, like it was supposed to for 2004, I might have another look, but I don't think the Escape will be worn out yet.
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Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5
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I want to thank you for buying hybrid vehicles! I wish Ford and the other producers would built and sell more of them. Hybrids can help cut down on the US consumption of oil. By using less gas you and others the buy hybrids are helping to hold down the price of gasoline. Have you researched the cost to replace the battery pack when it needs to be replaced? From what I read, a replacement battery pack for the Prius and the Escape cost over $4,000. Have you figured that cost into you overall cost of operation or do you buy hybrids because you believe you can help save the planet? Personally I run two vehicles, an American made luxury V8 and an American made V8 convertible, both of which only get 27 MPG. I buy a new car every year, selling the one that is two years old. I would love to buy a hybrid but since no American manufacture makes the cars I need and like to drive in a hybrid, I haven't bought a hybrid. Even if they did, I trade so often I could never recover the premium price that hybrids demand, but thanks for helping to keep the cost of gasoline at a price that helps those of us that can not afford to by hybrids.
mike hunt
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In alt.autos.ford snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

Where have you seen that price? It keeps going up, by the way. I've seen $1500, $2000, $3000, now "over $4000". That makes the cost of the batteries alone more than the difference between the regular Escape and the Hybrid.
The Honda Civic has 120 "approximately D-Cell sized" 1.2v NiMH batteries, at 6 Amp Hours. I found D-Cell 9000mAH for $6.83 quantity 100+, $819.60 total. http://makeashorterlink.com/?U2F212568
Considering that almost all of them are under warranty, I wouldn't expect much of an aftermarket for them.
The warranty on my Honda Civic is 8/80. On my Escape it's 10/150.
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Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5


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As long as Chrysler builds the transmissions there will be no competition for the Ford Hybrid Escape.
Charles
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Funny that GM & Chrysler are "Teaming up to develop" vehicles that their competition already has on the road. They are WAY behind the curve. Glad I bought Ford stock and not GM.
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:16:56 -0500, "Grover C. McCoury III"
||DaimlerChrysler, GM to Team Up on Engines || ||By JOHN PORRETTO AP Auto Writer || ||DETROIT (AP) - General Motors Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG, two of the ||world's biggest automakers, are teaming up to develop fuel-saving hybrid ||technology for a range of vehicles that will help them compete with ||hybrid-vehicle leaders Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. || ||GM, the world's largest automaker, and its German-American rival have ||signed a memorandum of understanding and intend to enter into a ||definitive agreement early next year, the two companies said Monday. No ||financial details were disclosed. || || ||"Our planned cooperation will draw on the technical expertise of two of ||the largest auto companies in the world," DaimlerChrysler board member ||Thomas Weber said in a news release. "The result is expected to be a ||series of strong hybrid propulsion systems that will serve as a solution ||for our alternative powertrain needs." || ||Hybrids draw power from two energy sources, typically a gas or diesel ||engine combined with an electric motor. Demand has grown worldwide ||because of concerns about the dangers of global warming and decreasing ||natural fuel supplies. || ||GM and Chrysler both sell a small number of "mild" hybrid pickups, but ||the systems are less advanced than those used on cars sold by Toyota and ||Honda. || ||Toyota, Japan's No. 1 automaker, said in October it would double the ||allocation of Prius hybrid cars for the U.S. market in 2005, part of a ||companywide goal to sell 300,000 gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles ||worldwide by the end of next year. The announcement coincided with the ||sale of the 100,000th Prius in the United States, where they went on ||sale in the summer of 2000. || ||Honda last week began selling its third hybrid car in the United States, ||a high-performance version of its popular Accord sedan. || ||In early August, Ford Motor Co. began producing a hybrid version of its ||Escape SUV, the world's first gas-electric hybrid SUV. || ||GM and DaimlerChrysler have been working independently on their own ||hybrid propulsion systems for their range of passenger vehicles. The ||jointly built "two-mode" hybrid system will be used in GM, Chrysler and ||Mercedes vehicles. Variants planned include rear- and front-wheel-drive ||versions for cars, trucks and other vehicles. || ||In their statement, GM and DaimlerChrysler said today's typical ||single-mode hybrid systems rely on much-larger electric motors than are ||needed in their patent-protected two-mode system. || ||Tom Stephens, GM's group vice president for powertrains, called the ||two-mode design "the optimal merging of full hybrid and state-of-the-art ||automatic transmission technologies." || ||"This system will reduce fuel consumption at highway speeds much more ||effectively than available single-mode systems and achieve at least a 25 ||percent improvement in composite fuel economy in full-size truck ||applications," Stephens said. || ||The two-mode system will be mated to different engines, and the ||respective vehicle programs will have unique performance dynamics and ||calibration. || ||Yet another $.02 worth from a proud owner of a 2001 Ranger 4x4 and a ||1970 Mach 1 351C @ ||http://community.webshots.com/album/18644819fHAehGJAjt
Texas Parts Guy
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