Crown Vic police 2005 would only start after key on for 3 min. Now no start!

For over a year car would only start with key on assecioary, for several minutes Had a new starter put in same prob. Now doesn't do anything but make a
clicking noise under the hood we don't have much money, any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
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On Sun, 24 May 2015 14:17:58 +0000, Molly

Have you checked the battery? If not, you can take it to an auto parts store like Auto Zone and they will test if for you for free.
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wrote:

battery related - bad battery, poor charging system, bad conections, ets. If it doesn't, you know it is something else.
Why did you change the starter? just a "throw money at it guess" or was there definitely a starter problem. Having it start after a time with the key on accessory sure points to a bad connection, to me as a semi-retired mechanic.
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On Sun, 24 May 2015 14:06:55 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote in

+1
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replying to CRNG , Molly wrote:

Starter went out forgot to say bought new battery , nothing. Also changed starter relay back when got new starter. I read it could be grounding wire. I am old lady, don't knowmuch about cars but willing to learn. Love my car, mostly when it runs. It runs good. Where would a bad connection be? The battery?
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On Mon, 25 May 2015 00:17:57 +0000, Molly

ground. You need a good dependable honest mechanic to check it out for you. They DO exist, although they are getting rare.
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+1

It should not be a grounding wire. The starter has a steel case that is bolted to the cast iron block that is grounded to the frame that is has the battery ground cable connected to it. There is no ground for the battery, there is only a voltage supplied.
You are describing a dead or weak battery.
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On Mon, 25 May 2015 11:01:47 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"

DEFINITELY requires a ground cable. On virtually every ford I've worked on (hundreds at a very minimum) there is a DIRECT ground cable from the battery to the engine block, and a ground cable from the block to the body or frame -and often a light guage body ground cable also connected directly to the negative battery terminal.
Engine ground problems on fords are not at all uncommon - and the moveable shoe pre-engage type starters used on Fords for many years are very sensitive to low voltage - whether from a low battery voltage, or voltage drop on poor connections
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A bad engine ground is not the cause of starting problems. It can be a problem in lots of areas. There is no ground for the starter. There is a ground for the entire engine, but the engine is bolted to the bell housing that is bolted to the transmission that is bolted to the...
The engine, even with no dedicated ground is grounded well enough for the starter to turn.
WITHOUT KNOWING THAT THE BATTERY IS GOOD, NOTHING WILL HELP WITH THE STARTER. If the battery is KNOWN GOOD, then other things can be chased down. But the head of the list is the battery, and a reasonably good battery test is to use jumper cables. If jumper cables cure the immediate problem, then the battery is the problem 99% of the time.
First things first.
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You are describing a problem that comes from a weak battery and a problematic ignition switch.
There is no logical reason why the key would need to be set to ON or ACC for any length of time before you could turn to START. Now that all you get is a clicking sound when the key turned to START, then you are fighting a dead battery.
You can confirm this by connecting jumper cables to a donor car that is running, waiting about 5 minutes to get a small charge going, then while holding the donor car to about 1500 RPM, try to start your car. If it cranks well, even if it does not start, then the battery is the problem.
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On Mon, 25 May 2015 10:58:46 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"

Jeff - a high resistance ground or power connection can be "warmed" by running a low current through it for a few minutes - warming the connection can cause the connection to temporarily expand and tighten up - allowing the engine to start. Not common - but possible. Very easy to eliminate the ignition switch as the problem by simply jumpering battery voltage to the small terminal of the starter solenoid. If it starts then and not with the switch - you have a switch (or wiring to the switch - including the neutral start switch) problem. If it still does not crank - look elsewhere.

Or the charging system - or the battery connections - since you are bypassing them too when you use a "boost". I've seen WAY too many batteries condemned for bad battery connections after being tested exactly that way. Get a volt meter and look up "voltage drop testing" and test it right.
I've been an auto mechanic and have done a lot of auto-electric troubleshooting ever since 1969 (semi retired now - and in the computer electronics business for quite a number of years.
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The Engine Start circuits are not warmed when the key is set to ACC. The entire point of ACC is to power stuff that has no relation to the Engine Start stuff. So I repeat, there is no logic is setting the key to ACC for any amount of time before you can start the engine.
I agree that the test of jumping the battery to the start relay will isolate the ignitins switch. My instinct is that the OP is several layers of aptitude below that.
I also think the issue is a weak battery, based on the symptom set provided thus far.
I agree that testing the battery is better than connecting jumper cables and if the cables work then the battery is toast. But the OP appears to have zero skills in testing, therefore if the jumper cables start the car then the battery is dead.
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On Tue, 26 May 2015 18:31:40 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"

You are not as smart as you think you are. The accessory circuits share the battery positive terminal and cable, the battery negative terminal and cable, in many cases the chassis ground, and in many cases the battery connection on the starter solenoid with the starting circuit. Accessory loads run through all of these components, and if there is a high resistance it will warm them up, a very effective way of starting some fords in particular with bad battery cables/connections, was to turn the headlights on first.
As for engine grounds - a missing engine ground cable may start a Chevy - much less likely a middle aged Ford. Depending on theground current flowing from the starter to the engine block to the bell housing to the transmission case to the drive shaft yoke, through the U joint to the main drive shaft, through the second U joint to the rear yoke to the pinion, through the pinion bearing to the diff case (or through the ring gear to the axles and through the axle bearings to the axle housing, and then through the rubber isolated coil springs and shocks, or the rubber bushed rear leaf springs, to the chassis is definitely a very foolish endeavor. EVERY automobile made has the MAIN battery ground connected to the engine block or a securely fastened accessory such as the alternator bracket or air conditioning compressor mount. It may also have a body ground and or a chassis ground - or the body and chassis may be "bonded" to the block with ground braids or ground cables.
Not only will a bad or missing engine ground often cause a starting problem - it often causes charging system problems as well.
Also, stray ground currents going through the drive train often causes wheel bearing failure, U'Joint failure, and even differential gear and bearing failures due to arcing. This can happen even with an excellent engine ground if the chassis ground to the engine is bad. Ground current from lights, blower motors, etc travels through the body, to the chassis, through the drivetrain back to the engine ground., and the current flow through the bearings and gears causes etching - and eventual failure.

If that is the case, he /she has no business opening the hood, or connecting a jumper cable, od attempting to diagnose or repairr ANYTHING on the car.

And replacing the battery will make it start for, perhaps a week - and the problem is very likely to return.
The ONLY way to diagnose this properly is with a couple test leads and a good voltmeter to do voltage drop tests.
If the OP is not capable of understanding or doing this - they MUST get a trusted, capable mechanic to do the job.
And not trying to be nasty here - but DO NOT hire Jeff for the job. His understanding of the problem is marginally better than yours.
Wear is the OP located??
If the weather and scenery are nice they can pay my airfare and hotel stay and I'll hop over with my multitester and do a proper diagnostic, and in all likelihood a proper repair, in an afternoon for a very reasonable hourly charge!!! Just don't let Border Control know I'm coming to put an american greasmonkey out of work if they are in the USA.

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WEAR? Really, wear is the OP located?
Holy shit, do you have velcro shoes?
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replying to Jeff Strickland , Molly wrote:

This old person thanks all of you for sharing. Battery was first thing tested, then replaced. I will now take it to a repair shop here in beautiful, sunny, Havasu, AZ.
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message

Pls post how it turns out. I had a similar symptom not long ago - clicking solenoid occasionally. Everything pointed to the battery. Jumped it and same problem. Turned out the ground cable connection at the battery post was corroded. Cleaned the terminals & clamps, stripped the ground cable insulation back, cut off the bad wires, scrubbed the wire clean, replaced. Not only does it start quicker than normal, headlights are back to being bright again.
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replying to Snuffy , Molly wrote:

Thank you for your help. I will get someone to do just that.
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