Dear Mr. Ford (a modest proposal)

RWD, powerful, and low fuel economy don't have to go together. Leave off powerful and RWD and good fuel economy isn't hard at all.

First, who's saying they have to be big? RWD doesn't have to be big. Pintos, Vegas, and even early small japanese cars were all RWD.

Ford could start out with a Focus sized RWD car with a (turbocharged) 4 cylinder and work up from there.

As far as larger goes... Look at the fuel economy numbers of plain falcon... RWD, I6...

= 255hp

383Nm = 282ftlb 10.9L/100km = 21.6mpg

Better than the CAFE inspired SUVs I'm sure.

I have never even come close to the EPA numbers in my '05 Impala, I am lucky to get 20 MPG in that POS. What is it that American car buyers are looking for again? It can't be power, handling, refinement, or fuel economy, because my car has none of them.

nate

Mike Hunter wrote:

The 300 HP RWD V8 Mustang GT and the 345 HP RWD V8 Chrysler both have an EPA highway rating of 25 MPG, 2 MPG higher than a 1980 Pinto. Even the 500 HP

2005 Ford GT had an EPA highway rating of 21 MPG ;)

mike hunt

The EPA figures are estimates based on a controlled test given to all vehicles for comparison proposes, YOUR mileage may vary depending on how and were you drive My 2005 Mustang had an EPA highway rating of 25, I can easily get that driving a steady 75 MPH. My 2006 Zephyr has and EPA of 28, it will do 33 at a steady 70. My one son bought a small car with a 34 MPG rating to commute to his new job, a 180 mile round trip over mountainous interstates. He averaged just 27 MPG because he seldom get into fifth gear. Eight out of ten Camrys sold in the US have only 4 cy motors. They will not get as good a mileage as those with a V6 in hilly or mountainous terrain. Around here Toyota dealers stock mostly V6 Camrys for that reason

mike hunt

"john cline ii" wrote in news:BWnDf.22441$5G.113 @trnddc08:

I know he tried to hire Ghosn... but he'd have to buy Renault, not Nissan. R owns N, and G is going to become the head of R... (isn't that effective this year??)

JP

Hmmm... My Civic is still worth 84% of what I bought it for (based on trade-in value I was offered from the dealer I purchased it from a few days ago) over 2+ years. None of my Fords could hold value like that.

Yeah, I spend more for the Honda, but at least it's #1) still running #2) running great #3) able to be sold for 84% of what I initially paid for it. I've paid off the loan faster than it's lost value.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems like a good purchase to me. I won't buy a Ford again until they either offer a car I fall in love with, or they sell a car with proven resale value.

I want to replace this Civic before it's a cashhole, like all my Fords have been from the day they were bought.

Dave

Yet oddly my Japanese econobox gives me basically all of the above, except power... It's enough to get me up to speed before 90% of Californians, but that's as useful as being able to shoot 90% of a school of paraplegic fish in a barrel.

It's still worlds better than the Cavalier I drove, since it doesn't cause back problems.

Dave Hogan

That will be a real comfort to a colleauge here who's stuck with an LS she doesn't want because she can't stand to let it go for zilch and can't stand the financial loss of keeping it. She hates it for the lack of reliability and Ford for their could-not-care-less attitude. Heck, if she'd asked me before she bought it, I could have warned her.

As for your claim that you're saving thousands, I don't believe it.

If I owned an '02 Lexus ES300 (Edmunds dealer trade value $19,164) and wanted to trade up to an '06 ES330 (Edmunds TMV $31,269), I'd have to bring $12,105 to complete the purchase.

If you owned an '02 Lincoln LS (Edmunds dealer trade value $13,885) and wanted to trade up to an '06 LS (Edmunds TMV $31,040), you'd have to bring $17,155 to complete the purchase.

If you're quite sure you're saving lots of money, I'd suggest you consider attending remedial math classes.

I looked at the Zephyr specs and price. For that kind of money you could have gotten the new Passat, the Maxima, or the Avalon, all much better cars than the Zephyr. Why would anyone prefer the Zephyr?!

The V8 Impala has plenty of power. And the 3.9 liter one is not too bad either powerwise.

I don't care for the styling of the Zephyr, but seriously. Have you actually driven the new Maxima??? Well I have and it is a poor cross between an old pacer and a George Jetson car it has a dash board that looks like it belongs on a vending machine, not in a car, did I mention the horrible torque steer. No thanks that's not my idea of a better car.

I drove the 06 Maxima than the 06 all wheel drive Ford Five Hundred one right after the other on the same day at the same dealership. The Ford Five Hundred is absolutely a better car, and it costs less than the Zephyr.

I'm talking about a base model 3.4, a combination that really shouldn't have been offered. I'm sure that part of the reason that economy is so bad is that you have to drive it foot-to-the-floor quite a bit to keep up with children on bicycles.

nate

The torque steer is bad, but the power and handling are good.

210 horses or somehting is ridiculous for such a big sedan. A 06 Passat with AWD is the car to go in this class.

reliability

One of my other co-workers bought a Windstar back in the mid-to-late '90s. Just off warranty, the transmission failed. When he had it dragged in to the dealer, they offered him a good deal on a new Windstar, with a decent trade, considering his car wouldn't move on its own. He took it and ended up with a really-late '90s or early '00s Windstar. Just off warranty, it threw a rod. As he related it, Ford bent him over the hood and "repaired" him good.

He's gone Asian, now, too. Think he'll ever buy a Ford again?

Eh, in this case, I might not go for it. The A-series (Golf, Jetta, GTI, GLI) VWs have been solid, if a little more expensive to run than their Japanese counterparts, so I don't hesitate to recommend them, but the B-series (Passat) have been notoriously problematic. Personally I don't like big cars so it's not a concern to me, but I wouldn't recommend a Passat to someone looking for reliable, economical transportation.

nate

Reliable, economical transportation = Toyota Corola.

The V6 AWD Passat looks awesome (good looks, good power, AWD), although a little pricey (invoice at 30K). I wish I had gotten that :(

Like I said you can spend your money wherever you choose, I could not care less I find it odd you should mention the Lincoln LS. My first domestic after three Lexus V8s was a 2000 Lincoln LS V8 that I purchased in August of

1999. It cost me around $24,000 less to drive home than the Lexus dealer wanted for a 1999 Lexus V8, the 2000 Lexus was not yet available. In October of 2001 I purchased a 2002 Lincoln LS V8 Sport. My total outlay was around $8,000. I also bought a 2004 for comparable outlay. I bought a 2005 for just $2,000 more than the price of an Avalon V6. I keep the 2004 in Florida. As with most of my vehicles my Lincolns are still owned by some of my relatives or friends, the 2000 currently has nearly 110K trouble free miles on the clock. As with my Lexus', none of the Lincolns were problematic. The only difference I see is the Lincoln dealer treats me much better and I can buy a new Lincoln every two years for far less than it was costing me to buy a new Lexus every two years.

You site retail values listed by Edmonds. You are correct a three year old V6 Camry is listed at $4,000 more than a V6 Taurus but you forget that a Camry cost at least $5,000 more to drive home, when new, than the Taurus. The Taurus actually retains a higher percentage of the original investment than the Camry. ;)

mike hunt

Two reason my wife liked the car and I no longer buy foreign cars. I only paid $27,600 for the Zephyr, far less than $34,000 for an Avalon

mike hunt

That's not the whole story. I had a very very tough time selling my 3 years old GM car. Buyers of used cars, especially in large urban areas, are only interested in Hondas or Toyotas because they just want reliable, economical transportation and they "know" that American cars are bad and Jap cars are good (that's the perception!). In rural areas you tend to find more American-made vehicles.