Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half!

Unfortunately, this will not happen. American workers have been doped up with corporate butt gas and Jesus Juice-they voted to put their economic well-being junior to Republican conservatives' re-election because of abortion, gambling and gay marriage. These issues brought about substantial debate, with the unofficial Republican line being that God would smite America for these abominations unless voters kept Bush, DeLay, Santorum, and other fundaloony corporate fellators in office.

Apparently preferring starvation to divine smiting, they did.

What pray tell are you referring?

What is "Jesus Juice"?

While you are at it. What do the Democrats and Independents do wrong?

If they don't, there won't be any strikes because they won't be any jobs. The US is competing against 3rd world countries for jobs. BTW, even at a cut of 50%, the wages are far higher than the wages in 3rd world countries.

Jeff

(...)

Your are REALLY mistaken. It is all about labor cost with a auto built here. Labor costs are bleeding them dry and it is reaching critical mass. I have watched a lot of companies fold or go under because works want more money than is availble. There are harder times on the horizon for them and it is not about politics but about supply and demand and competing with price of your product. The airline industry is going throuch massive cuts now too because of costs and decreased revenues.

On 10/10/05 06:47 am Jeff tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Yes, but it also costs a lot more to live here than in those 3rd world countries -- certainly for housing, and maybe even for food. And in many

3rd world countries there is still a local market at which to buy food, whereas here one needs a car to get to the supermarket, public transport systems not being the greatest in the world.

BTW, I heard recently that the US is competing even against Canada for jobs, because there employers don't have to pay astronomical costs for health insurance for their employees.

Perce

Do you feel that we should all get paid third world salaries?

Labor cost is a big factor in any business but so is production cost for raw materials and other operating expenses. The company I work for has global locations all around the world. We have very few expansion in the US for my company but are going overseas to China. They are building massive size plants with double or triple the capacity of what we can produce. Cost per pound goes down with increase production. Why are they doing it has less to deal with labor cost but more with taxes, benefits paid, environmental permitting.

They are building plants with less automation and computer control so they need more people to operate them They pay less per hour wages and very little in benefits. I went to Mexico to help start up a plant and they had

10 workers for every one in the US. They had less concern with safety and environmental issues. I saw three workers die and the plant manager went with government representative to the family home and presented them with a check equal to about ten thousand dollars. The family was happy and 100 other folks were waiting to take that person's job.

The only workers getting richer is the CEO's with their massive salaries and benefit packages. They downsize companies and layoff hundreds of workers then they get a big fat bonus. When they get fired for bankrupt the business they get a nice big severance and the worker on the bottom of the totem pole barely gets enough severance to make ends meet for a few weeks. Then the CEO goes to work for another company thanks to his buddies on another board of directors and he starts collecting another big fat pay check.

CEO need to pay the workers that actual do the work for the company what they are worth and stop ripping of the company with their outrageous salaries and incentive plans.

Taking a 50% pay cut is a little steep in when the CEO keeps getting raises. Delphi made bad business choices yet the CEO got rewarded. J.T. Battenberg III had a 67% increase in his pay from 2001 to 2002 while the company lost money.

They are claiming bankruptcy due to bad business decisions and poor planning. Their biggest customer is doing poor also and they failed to seek out more customers. The union agreed to reduce starting salaries of new employees while maintaining present employees at the same pay. See

for contract agreement.

Delphi will ask the bankruptcy courts to allow it to eliminate its pension just like United Airlines. This will free up millions of dollars that could be used for debt. All the workers and retirees will see their pension cut by at least half if not more once the governments pension guaranty takes over.

Sarge

Delphi execs get boost in severance pay

The boys at the top get more money and the working man gets less. Sounds like the Bushism is working.

When we vote for politicians who sell off America's jobs in bulk to the lowest offshore bidder, then yes, that is exactly what we deserve.

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@alumni.engin.umich.edu:

And what do you propose as the alternative?

The amazing idea that we should at the same time respect all other cultures and allow unfettered immigration, while hobbling local industry with environmental and health-related legalities, but somehow prevent cheap goods from nations that dont bother with such, is amazing beyond belief.

Meaning: All you can do is complain, the only answer from ANYONE is either adjust or go to a world-wide socialist centrally planned economy.

and we all saw from Katrina how well THAT works.

Would you mind going back and seeing that GM, itself was the author of this conundrum in the late 40's when it started down the road to cradle to grave security for its workers?

I thought not.

Wrong, the employers in Canada have to pay the Government for healthcare. Any employer be it 1 employee to thousands, has to pay for the healthcare of all employees. So don't make comments that you know nothing about.

In Canada (specifically, Ontario):

Employer health tax is paid by the employer based on 1.95% of the employee's pay (it does not come out of the employees pay). There is no ceiling or limit on this tax.

Ontario health tax is a new tax (about a year old) and it does come out of the employees pay (basically between $500 and $1000 per year, scaled to pay).

WSIB (worker's comp) is also paid by the employer, and is determined by the perceived risk of the nature of the business. The lowest rates (office-type worker, computer programmers, etc) work out to about $125 to $150 per employee per year (30 cents per $100 of earnings, topping off at something like $60k). Other types of jobs (say, building demolition, construction industry, etc) pay much more.

The above numbers are for small businesses. I have no idea if they are the same as large auto companies.

One thing is for sure. In Canada, it's ->less complicated

You can blame the American manufactures all you want but the problems in this county are caused by the consumer. The problem is domestics manufacture have to compete with foreign manufactures who can build their vehicles in other countries that have far lower wages and far less costly government regulations on how they must run their business. In addition they need to compete with those foreign manufactures, like Toyota, who merely assemble their vehicle in the US, using lower paid workers who receive fewer benefit, of mostly lower cost imported parts. The greed of the American consumer had led them to buy more and more lower cost imported products yet expect to continue to garner higher American wages and benefits. Something has to give. Unlike Japanese consumers, who support their own economy, the American consumers in their greed are not likely to support American manufactures by paying higher prices to maintain their own economy. American manufacture more and more are being forced to do what the consumer is doing by going to those same sources to lower their cost of making their products. If American consumers are willing to buy foreign goods over American made goods they are going to be forced to accept lower wages from their employers, or worse, they will see their employer go out of business or move their production to lower priced countries, as well.. If American corporations start building their products off shore, as well, at least we will still have American corporations paying federal cooperate income taxes on the profits made in the US. That is far better than some foreign company taking all of their profits out of the county along with the American jobs, as is currently the case. Middle class Americans better soon wake up or the only thing your grandchildren will need to know to get a job is how to say 'Do you want fries with that?' or 'Welcome to Wal-Mart.'

mike hunt

"Nomen Nescio" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@dizum.com...

I hardly call 70 or 80 bucks a hour in wages AND benifits getting too little. They do no realize the big "raise" thy get every year because of the health care insurance that they do not pay for directly.

Fact: Health care in the USA is the most expensive in the world, bar none. Next most expensive is Switzerland, at an average of about one half that of the USA.

Neither the workers nor the industrialists can help this. The freaking government could, but is too much in the pockets of the medical lobby.

Neither do Americans have the access to quality care as we have been told to believe. We brainwash ourselves, with the help of the gummint, to believe we have all the best, but that doesnt hold water.

GM is is deep caca too, and is evaluating the advisability of taking bankruptcy just behind Delphi.

That is so lame. "Bushism"! Any worker, especially union, knows this situation has been going on for decades..... since the days of a 16 hour day for $1.00 a day. Which means it's been going on under such leadership as Clinton, Kennedy, etc, just as much as under Bush, Reagan, etc. Saying it's a "Bushism" is totally ignorant of union history.

It's not the worker, union or not, or the bosses, or the consumers, or the 3rd world countries. It's a combination of all of it. You can't simplify it. And it has been a continuous progress of complication as more of the global economy becomes enmeshed.

The US economy has always been in an upward death spiral. Companies want more profit, so they raise prices. Workers need more money to pay those prices. They strike, or whatever, for higher wages, and, as long as they are at it, more bennies. The company is forced to give them at least a portion of what they demand. So they raise prices to cover the increase. (No company has really ever paid for wage increases, or taxes... the consumers do. Who are the consumers? The people who make the products the companies sell.) It cuts across the board. GM workers may go on strike, which has nothing to do with haircuts, but you'll see barbershops raise their prices.

Companies also require continued population growth in order to sell more products which increases profits and pays the costs of labor etc. (The last thing the world needs is continuing population increase.) Imagine how many cars Ford, GM or Honda would need to produce and sell, if the population were stable, or even declining. The number of units would shrink because there is no one to sell to except those cases where a car is crashed or wears out. The rest would just be sitting there. Which means a need for fewer employees, so layoffs occur.... which leads to strikes.... which leads to higher wages, and subsequent product cost increases.

Eventually, the system has to break down or change. Unfortunately, it seems everything is headed for some form of socialism, where even the lamest of society gets full benefits.

Spike

1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video. http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg

Delphi supplies General Maintenance (GM). GM was/is Delphi's parent. Wouldn't bother me one bit if both went out of business. They should be shut down.

Larry Behold Beware Believe

I blame the absolute greed of the uaw worker, they put themselves in this predicament. Does someone putting a nut on a bolt deserve $27/hr plus enough O.T to make 6 figures a year? F no. I feel for the real skilled workers in this country struggling to survive, not the overpaid uaw worker. When you have janitors making $100K a year something is going to give.

....which should please those people employed by them, along with taxpayers who will probably end up supporting them until (if and when) they find something else....

Back in the early 70s (when dinosaurs ruled the earth : 0 ) Boeing lost the SST contract to build the plane which was to compete with the Concorde. All those people were laid off. A large number went on the public rolls, but many also went to work doing anything to bring home the bacon. Among the aerospace engineers were many who felt that it was beneath their dignity to have a PhD hanging on the wall, and work at McDucks supporting their families. So, you had college students, welfare mothers (it was the 70s), and PHs all standing in line at the grocery with food stamps in hand. And who pays for it?

Spike

1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40 16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial 225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video. http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/davescar_7_11_05_002.jpg

You can bet it has an effect on pay.

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