Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half!

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Really? None of the assembly plants that GM has shut down, over the past five years, have been bought by other auto manufactures. Why would any of
the foreign manufactures want to buy them in any event? Most of their plants were built at taxpayers expense in non union states to attract them to those states. Notice the Toyota ads that say they operate in new pants worth billons of dollars. They never say they OWN those plants. They say they assemble cars and trucks in several states, but if you look at the fine print, its says they are assemble them of world sourced parts. You said it yourself if GM goes under the jobs lost will go off shore. Do you think Toyota will still assemble car in the US of Chinese parts when it will be far cheaper to make the parts and the cars in China?
mike hunt

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fine
Yes because there's a bunch of laws that the federal government has regulating the content of US work in cars. That's the only reason that Toyota is here assembling cars in the first place. If they had their wishes they would never have come here.
Ted
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The only regulation is that the vehicle must display the country of origin and the percentage of north American parts in the VIN and a label listing the country of origin of the major components. Check the first digit of the VIN on a Toyota. Except for the few built in the GM/Toyota plant, where the UAW contract requires the use of at least 75% American parts, you will find a 'J' meaning it was built in Japan or a '4' meaning it was assemble in the US of between 40% and 70% imported parts and the vast majority have a '5' meaning it was assemble in the US of less than 40% American parts. Vehicles actually built in the US of at least 75% American parts display a '1'
mike hunt

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First Delphi....then GM....and then Ford in 2006..... Just WATCH AND SEE. Oh, all you GM and Delphi retirees had better get used to no health coverage or that nice monthly check in a short time also.
Here is a DIRECT Quote from the IF Newsletter 5 Months ago:
"You may not want to believe it but our economy has been in disintegration since 1989 and only one trick after another has salvaged it. Just look at the dollar. It is only reflecting the collapse of a once great economy. Soon the US dollar will cease to be the world's reserve currency. We have major corporations on the verge of bankruptcy, GM is a good example. As GM goes, so goes America and what is good for GM is good for America. Its debt will shortly be junk. Its supplier, Delphi, along with GM, is under investigation and will precede GM into bankruptcy. Potential retirees and pensioners are going to be in for a big surprise - l ike the loss of 65% to 75% of their pensions. GM has $50 billion in debt to refinance over the next 20 months. We do not believe the market can or will want to handle it. The market cannot even handle the Treasury refinancings. That means interest rates have to move, jeopardizing the future of the housing market and complicating and increasing the cost of debt service. There are many more complicating factors that are going to be moving into the forefront in the weeks and months ahead. Prepare yourself - it will be a difficult journey. "
(The above was written in June of 2005)
DELPHI USA IS DEAD - GET USED TO IT UAW BUNKIE !!
GMAC, General Motors Acceptance Corp., contributes about two-thirds of GM's profits. After three years of $5,000 rebates per car, which was double the sector average, car and truck sale growth is falling. GMAC's $260 billion debt is larger than all of that of the auto division combined. As you saw in the last issue, GM's euro bond issues are trading at a yield of over 11%, which is certainly junk quality. The money maker GMAC is faced with declining vehicle sales and has been a major investor in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgages, thus, as interest rates rise and home prices fall, paper quality will come into question and mortgage volume will dry up, especially in cash outs and home equity loans. GMAC is facing a double-edged sword. At GM the most profitable sales unit is the SUV and with today's gasoline prices, they will suffer. Sales overall for January and February were off 11% despite having lowered prices in February. As you can see, the market is simply saturated with vehicles. GM lost $2.6 billion in Europe last year via Vauxhall, Saab and Opel and is laying off 12,000 workers. Since 1980 the auto workforce has shrunk by 70% due to deliberate de-industrialization and, of course, thousands of smaller firms supplying the industry have been phased out with massive job losses.
In 2006, GM either will pay off or refinance $44.7 billion in debt and Ford has to do $37.1 billion or $174 billion in debt. Can the market handle that at junk levels or will they want too? That could be bonds with a 13-14% coupon. Will financial firms, such as GMAC continue the hobby of producing cars? We don't think so. Can you see how deadly offshore production, outsourcing and free trade and globalization has been for America? Our industrial heartland has been destroyed. Fundamentally both GM and GMAC are on a path to destruction as is Ford. Borrowing costs have just jumped from 7.5% to over 11%. Can they generate cash at these levels and still make a profit? Delphi, the GM parts spin off, is now embroiled in an Enron-type fraud scandal, which could indirectly reflect on GM. Delphi has already informed 4,000 of its salaried and retirees that it is ceasing to pay their health care plan. GM and Delphi layoffs are over 10,000. Suppliers are already at junk level and can only borrow from GMAC to stay in business. Ford's Visteon is in the same boat. The UAW is on a two-tier wage system to save money and avoid layoffs.
If all of that wasn't bad enough GM's pension fund is underfunded by $17 billion or is only funded to 80% of its obligations. This comes as George and the neocons push pension reform, better called, funding your plan. This is a debt bomb and Washington knows it. If reform passes Congress for the benefit of the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., many companies will achieve junk status. GM wants to split off GMAC hoping to save GMAC. If that happens this year it is guaranteed GM will go into bankruptcy. PBGC is already $23 billion in debt and can not absorb the obligations to GM's hundreds of thousands of pensioners. This is a disaster of major proportions. Plus, they'll lose GM's pension insurance premium payments. Even if GMAC is spun off we do not believe they will escape attachment by PBGC. It should have been spun off three years ago.
(Of course Delphi Mexico and Asia will still be in business. Delphi USA and it's retirees are going into bankruptcy. Enjoy the ride folks! Money is GOD)
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That tell us a lot about their intent.
I've read a lot about stock manipulation over the years and this is a typical method used when some jerk wants to short-sell company stock.
My advice is to ignor this thread completely, so we don't fall into their self-serving trap.
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StingRay wrote:

Nice try. If you don't like the message, discredit the messenger.
No matter who started it, the fact is that GM & Ford are about to go down the same road already blazed by the steel companies and airlines.
John
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U.S. auto parts sector vulnerable to Delphi strike
Reuters / October 14, 2005
CHICAGO -- The U.S. auto parts sector faces potential supply shocks if hourly workers strike Delphi Corp., which is pursuing wage and benefit concessions from its unions, a key focus of its bankruptcy reorganization, an analyst said.
"It's a distinct possibility that a work action does take place somewhere through the course of this bankruptcy," Fitch Ratings managing director Mark Oline said.
Highlighting that possibility, Richard Shoemaker, the United Auto Workers official responsible for labor contract negotiations with Delphi, told Reuters on Thursday, Oct. 13, that a strike "certainly is one of the options that is available" to the union.
Delphi, which filed the biggest bankruptcy in U.S. automotive history Oct. 8 in New York, has said it wants to negotiate significant cost cuts with its unions and plans to submit written proposals to them next Friday.
However, Delphi also has told the U.S. Bankruptcy Court that it plans to begin the process of rejecting the agreements in mid-December if it cannot reach a deal with its unions that would significantly cut its U.S. manufacturing costs.
"We have not yet seen any supply disruptions, but it remains a key risk," Oline said. "That risk will only increase as we get closer to a date where Delphi, if unable to achieve a contract with a UAW, needs to impose a contract."
Delphi has about 50,600 employees in the United States, including 34,750 hourly workers, almost all represented by unions. Delphi had sought to negotiate wage and benefit cuts from the UAW to avoid bankruptcy, amid reports that suggested it sought cuts as deep as 63 percent.
"The extent of the wage and benefit reductions Delphi is seeking would be difficult for any union to swallow easily," Oline said, adding that Fitch is also keeping close watch on Delphi's plan for its pensions.
Smaller suppliers, which can be more vulnerable to cash flow interruptions than larger companies, may feel some pressure because of payment disruptions.
A missed customer payment could be a tipping point, but that has not happened so far with the bankruptcy cases of Collins & Aikman Corp. and Tower Automotive Inc. and appears unlikely in the Delphi case, said Neil De Koker, president of the Original Equipment Suppliers Association.
"I don't suspect there will be a rash (of bankruptcies), but there will be other Chapter 11s because the industry is still struggling," he added.
The vast majority of smaller suppliers probably have no more than a few percentage points of business with any one company and should weather the storm without having to file for bankruptcy themselves, De Koker said.
Collins & Aikman, which manufactures automotive interiors, filed for bankruptcy protection in May and Tower Automotive, an auto-body frames producer, filed for Chapter 11 in February.
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There's a LOT of truth to this post. I know it's hard for GM supporters to accept, but the company is in VERY serious trouble.
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Nomen Nescio wrote:

Not true at all. I will be you a whole ton of money that the computer you typed that on would be massively more expensive to purchase had it been 100% made in the USA.
Certainly not all of the cost savings of off-shore production ends up in the end customer's pocket, but a goodly portion of it does.
Have you noticed that those products which are primarily made in asia have been on a long term downward price trend while those few thing which are not easily imported into the US keep getting more expensive?
John
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John Horner wrote:

The consumer benefits, is the mantra of cheap imported goods.
I'm typing this on a computer that is a Bitsa, it's a PIII with a Adaptec SCSI card and a 20 GB SCSI drive. All from dead, used computers I put together. The keyboard is an old AT Clone originally off a 386, big plug and all. It's almost old enough to vote. Computers could go up by a factor of 10 as far as I am concerner, I have around $200 in this one.
I used to fix VGA monitors, we would put flybacks, horizontal output transistors, you name it in them. Now you just landfill them. Phooey phooey phooey. We would still have Amigas and Ataris and far more efficient software if it wasn't for the onslaught of supercheap unrepairable PC hardware.
The consumer benefits but the producer takes a high hard one up the you know where. Where can I get a job as a professional consumer and just consume stuff all day? We are all amateur consumers and professional producers. I say cut off cheap imports because only the idle rich and government drones will suffer.
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Bret Ludwig wrote: " I used to fix VGA monitors, we would put flybacks, horizontal output transistors, you name it in them. Now you just landfill them. Phooey phooey phooey. We would still have Amigas and Ataris and far more efficient software if it wasn't for the onslaught of supercheap unrepairable PC hardware."
We need to stop being a disposable society. Business want us that way so they can sell more product. It does not make them big profits if we can repair our stuff. The two way radios I use at work or Motorola. They sell two radios that look identical and with the same features, one is their expensive model and they other is their cheaper version. Both use the same case and internals. When either break at work they just keep the case and put in a new internals in the old case. In the old days, the radio tech would have hooked up his trusted soldering iron and instruments and found what was bad with the circuitry and just changed the bad transistor or other component.
Sarge
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No, not for electronics.

Has little to do with that.

same
other
With electtronics the move is to integrate everything on a single chip or a set of a few chips simply because what the devices are expected to do nowadays is so complex that it's impossible to design it in discrete components that would have any reliability. Take an ordinary DSL modem, that is a device that has as much computing power as a 15 year old Cray supercomputer.
And when you tie most of it up in a single chip, you cannot repair that chip if it breaks..
Ted
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Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: "With electtronics the move is to integrate everything on a single chip or a set of a few chips simply because what the devices are expected to do nowadays is so complex that it's impossible to design it in discrete components that would have any reliability. Take an ordinary DSL modem, that isa device that has as much computing power as a 15 year old Cray supercomputer. And when you tie most of it up in a single chip, you cannot repair that chip if it breaks.."
I agree with having to repair the chip but you van just replace one chip instead of throwing the whole thing in the garbage and buying another. This would reduce the demand on such things as plastic and resins used in making theses device. So why not repair? Because the manufacture makes more money selling you a whole new one then they do selling you just a chip. This has made us a disposable society.
I have worked in both resin unit, a polypropylene catalyst production unit and now an ethylene unit all within on manufacturing plant in the last 15 years. I have seen how much production has had to increase to keep up with demands. The only slow down came in the late 80's and early 90's but it is back up. When I started in the job in the resins unit, we made a 5 million pounds of a resin used in coating computer circuitry boards. This run would take about a month. When I transferred to the catalyst production unit, the resin unit was making 25 millions pounds per year along with increases in the 80 plus other resins they made. The increase in production was due the request of current customers orders and new customers they acquired. I seen the same thing happen in both the catalyst and ethylene units.
We are a disposable society, we need to put more demand on the three "R's". Recycle, Reduce, Reuse
Sarge
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On 10/14/05 11:03 am Sarge tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

But when a replacement part is expensive compared to the price of the whole device, and when you have to pay for a minimum of an hour's labor at, say, $70/hr. (auto repairs in NY were $90/hr. two years ago), and you can buy a new and improved model for $150 (built on an automated assembly line in Asia supervised by $2/hr. workers) with a factory warranty, why spend $100 fixing the old one?
Perce
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Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

Once upon a time I had a Zoom modem than had a 7 year guarantee. The thing died after a couple of years. A bad chip. I sent it back and it worked, for 2 more years and died again. By then I was tired of the hassle and the slight expense. But it was almost worth it for me because I had very special software that only worked with this Zoom modem. And the software of answering the phone and interpreting a fax or voice worked well and at that time, this was a rarity. It sounds like something simple, but I found this combo actually worked like the proverbial tank, as long you I defragged the drive before use. It was that sensitive to operating systems and specific chips.
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Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

Had a Zoom modem, 7 year guarantee. The thing died after a couple of years. A bad chip. I sent it back and it worked, for 2 more years and died again. By then I was tired of the hassle and the slight expense of shiping and $10 fee? But it was almost worth it for me because I had software that only worked with this Zoom modem. And the software of answering the phone and interpreting a fax or voice worked well and at that time, this was a rarity for inexpensive hardware/software.
About swapping out chips? It's good training. I liked the challenge of finding and swapping out chips. I learned a little about oscilloscopes, logic probes and the quickest way to destroy a computer. Nothing like soldering on bubble wrap that was pink and conductive. Either that or my soldering technique left something to be desired.
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Bret Ludwig wrote:

You are sadly mistaken in your computer logic. Computer technology is disposable in that it is evolving so rapidly that thing posssible today were not a few years ago and thing not possible today will be in a few years. If you are still using a P3, more power to you but you are way behind the power curve and I am not even talking to be state of the art. A 400 buck entry system is light years ahead of your system.
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Nomen Nescio wrote:

Go right ahead, call a general strike of all unionized employees in the US of A. Keep it up for at least 12 months. At the end of that game there will be no union jobs left and the country will simply go on just fine.
John
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It would never happen. Rail unions can't get out on strike as the govenment would step in and has. Hell, look what happened to PATCO. The friend of the working man fired them.
Roy

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